Question for Atheists

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]There's no right, there's no wrong.

This statement negates the existence of absolutes but is in itself an absolute statement. I need not say it is a self-defeating position to take.[/b]

Is anything absolutely big?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Is anything absolutely big?

Compared to what?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Compared to what?

Ok, for your question:

"Within an Atheistic framework, would it be absolutely wrong at any time to murder another human being?"

My answer is

Compared to what?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Ok, for your question:

"Within an Atheistic framework, would it be absolutely wrong at any time to murder another human being?"

My answer is

Compared to what?

OK maybe the question was a little vague... Here's the improvement:

Is the unlawful premeditated raping and killing of an innocent 2 year old baby absolutely right or absolutely wrong?

Originally posted by dj2becker
OK maybe the question was a little vague... Here's the improvement:

Is the unlawful premeditated raping and killing of an innocent 2 year old baby absolutely right or absolutely wrong?

Compared to what?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Compared to what?

Exactly. You don't have anything to compare it to. In other words for the Atheist there would be nothing absolutely wrong with raping and murdering an innocent 2 year old baby. At least you are being honest about it...

Originally posted by dj2becker
Exactly. You don't have anything to compare it to. In other words for the Atheist there would be nothing absolutely wrong with raping and murdering an innocent 2 year old baby. At least you are being honest about it...

I didn't say whether or not it was absolutely wrong. If I wanted to answer "no" I would have, just as if you'd wanted to answer "no" to my question you would have. Unless, of course, you're intentionally avoiding doing so and therefore being deceptive.

I simply have no idea what you mean by "absolute".

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I didn't say whether or not it was absolutely wrong.

So is it or is it not?

Originally posted by dj2becker
There's no right, there's no wrong.

This statement negates the existence of absolutes but is in itself an absolute statement. I need not say it is a self-defeating position to take.

In what way does that statement negate the existence of absolutes?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Exactly. You don't have anything to compare it to. In other words for the Atheist there would be nothing absolutely wrong with raping and murdering an innocent 2 year old baby. At least you are being honest about it...

Aeeee! Wrong answer. See, them atheists (and us agnostics) compare
right and wrong to their own experiences and natural desires. We all
have a self-preservation instinct, and we can all relate to people being
in danger (especially defenceless little babies). Compared to that it's
wrong to do what you just suggested.

Now, you may argue that an atheist could flip out and really not care
about his/her own life much, and hence not care about others. That lack
of sympathy for others can cause you to perform many heinous acts,
whereas a theist such as yourself must abide by a "higher" law and would
have to follow that law no matter how you feel about another person.

Alas, this is not true. A psychopath is pretty much a psychopath whether
(s)he believes in a God or not. So, the subject (as so many has
already pointed out) is not really about being atheist or not, but more
about social norms and personal experiences slowly shaping our sense
of right and wrong over time.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Exactly. You don't have anything to compare it to. In other words for the Atheist there would be nothing absolutely wrong with raping and murdering an innocent 2 year old baby. At least you are being honest about it...

This is absolutely disingenuous.

One does not need God to have morals. Indeed, "morals", rules which determine how we live are predicted by the theory of evolution. Many, many animals exhibit "moral" behaviour (for example, not killing defeated foes), indeed, humans are less moral than most (for example, torture), which leave your idea of God in trouble.

Originally posted by dj2becker
So is it or is it not?

Answer my question and I'll answer yours.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Within an Atheistic framework, would it be [b]absolutely wrong at any time to murder another human being? If so, why?[/b]

If a muslim asked you: "As a non muslim, would it be absolutely wrong at any time to murder another human being? If so, why?", you would think it a stupid question.

If I pre-supposed that, because you don't share my beliefs, you had no moral standards, you would think me arrogant

Originally posted by dj2becker
Exactly. You don't have anything to compare it to. In other words for the Atheist there would be nothing absolutely wrong with raping and murdering an innocent 2 year old baby. At least you are being honest about it...

Lets put it another way: Exactly. You don't have anything to compare it to. In other words for the non muslim there would be nothing absolutely wrong with raping and murdering an innocent 2 year old baby. At least you are being honest about it...

Originally posted by dj2becker
Is it [b]absolutely wrong to murder someone?

Hint: This is a yes/no question...[/b]

Please answer this in relation to the ten commandments, the punishmentents meted out by god in various bits of the OT, the punishements laid down in Leviticus and the christian doctine of 'just war'.

Show us your moral compass, big boy.