Spirituality
27 Jan 19
@kellyjay saidYes, manmade, just like Islam is manmade, just like Hinduism is manmade, just like Judaism is manmade. Farfetched, incoherent, poorly thought-out, unexplained moral nonsense.
Man made, the only thing man made thing here are you excuses to stay in your sins, being smug about it all the while doing it.
@kellyjay saidWhat would be the moral purpose of torturing in burning flames for eternity ~ for all intents and purposes, in complete secret ~ those human beings that don't find these things - that you just so happen to believe - credible?
Now, there is no reason why outside of love that Jesus would be willing to do what He did for us, and no reason outside of God's love for us that He would send Jesus to die for our sins, redeeming us.
29 Jan 19
@fmf saidSure there is merit in doing good, but it isn't going to be good enough to clean away sin. Therefore no one by merit is going to earn their way into God's Kingdom.
No. I don't think these things at all. I am scrutinizing your ideology. Your scriptures command you to obey Jesus - there is "merit" in doing that, right? You are told to avoid "sin" - there is "merit" in doing that, right? You are told to do good works - there is "merit" in doing that, right? These are the commandments you are told to obey, and yet you talk about gaining everlasting life "regardless of merit".
@kellyjay saidWhat about the merit that Jesus' commandments require of His followers? "Regardless of merit", as you put it, means that "merit" (following Jesus' commandments) is neither here nor there.
Sure there is merit in doing good, but it isn't going to be good enough to clean away sin. Therefore no one by merit is going to earn their way into God's Kingdom.
@kellyjay saidDon't you believe you are going to "earn" your way into "God's Kingdom" by virtue of your belief in Jesus ["regardless of merit", regardless of how "wicked and evil" you insist you are] ~ whereas people like me deserve to be tortured for our lack of belief in all this? How does this make any moral sense?
Therefore no one by merit is going to earn their way into God's Kingdom.
@kellyjay saidWell of course my thoughts and beliefs are manmade. So are yours. That's all we are discussing here: manmade ideas. What other kinds of ideas can there be? What you refer to a my "excuses" [as you put it] are in fact simply the reasons why I lack belief in the thing you just so happen to believe in.
Man made, the only thing man made thing here are you excuses to stay in your sins, being smug about it all the while doing it.
@kellyjay saidWhy do you run and hide behind this silly little “you used to be a Christian so you should know” tactic, every time you are asked a question you don’t want to take on?
You have boasted that you used to be a Christian for a large amount of time. I suppose I could go with you never actually paid any attention to doctrine the whole time retaining nothing, or something else is true or not. You want it both ways?
@fmf saidIts not by works, are we saved but by God's grace. Our works will be judged but our salvation was won for us, we start off saved in Christ. Of course anyone spending a little time in the faith would know that.
What about the merit that Jesus' commandments require of His followers? "Regardless of merit", as you put it, means that "merit" (following Jesus' commandments) is neither here nor there.
Ephesians 2
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
@kellyjay saidWhat is the moral purpose of torturing people for eternity after they die - in secret - if they didn't subscribe to these religious beliefs while they were alive?
Its not by works, are we saved but by God's grace. Our works will be judged but our salvation was won for us, we start off saved in Christ. Of course anyone spending a little time in the faith would know that.
What is the moral purpose of threatening to torture people for eternity after they die if, while they were alive, they don't believe any such punishment/revenge exists?
You can't answer either of these questions coherently.
29 Jan 19
@fmf saidIt is God’s Kingdom a place is being made for His own in this life there. A place has been made for those who follow Jesus and one for those following Satan in his rebellion against God. Each one’s followers will remain aware of the choices that they made and the consequences of them for as long as God’s Kingdom remains. It is not that difficult just hard to imagine either one.
What is the moral purpose of torturing people for eternity after they die - in secret - if they didn't subscribe to these religious beliefs while they were alive?
What is the moral purpose of threatening to torture people for eternity after they die if, while they were alive, they don't believe any such punishment/revenge exists?
You can't answer either of these questions coherently.
@philokalia saidTO "Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you"
I am a bit thick...
What is meant by the idea that there is merit in not sinning?
What is the overall goal of this line of talk?
AND 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind"
AND "Love your neighbor as yourself".
29 Jan 19
@kellyjay saidThere may be something you call "following Satan in his rebellion against God" that appeals to your imagination but I don't believe your torturer god exists and I don't believe "Satan" exists. Trotting out your mythology/dogma does not constitute an answer to the questions you were ostensibly responding to.
It is God’s Kingdom a place is being made for His own in this life there. A place has been made for those who follow Jesus and one for those following Satan in his rebellion against God. Each one’s followers will remain aware of the choices that they made and the consequences of them for as long as God’s Kingdom remains. It is not that difficult just hard to imagine either one.
@kellyjay saidThe question from FMF which you are desperately dodging is:
It is God’s Kingdom a place is being made for His own in this life there. A place has been made for those who follow Jesus and one for those following Satan in his rebellion against God. Each one’s followers will remain aware of the choices that they made and the consequences of them for as long as God’s Kingdom remains. It is not that difficult just hard to imagine either one.
"What is the moral purpose of torturing people for eternity after they die - in secret - if they didn't subscribe to these religious beliefs while they were alive?"
Furballs™ explaining these places made for people "following Satan" (non Christians) is not an answer to the question.