23 Aug 16
Originally posted by chaney3Jesus also got angry and overturned the trading tables in the temple courtyard; do you think this means he was a practitioner of rage and violence?
Why is Jesus using alcohol to alter His state of mind? And possibly into a state of drunkenness?
And for those who believe Jesus is God in some way, are we to believe that God is drinking, or getting drunk?
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Originally posted by Rajk999
That quote is irrelevant to your post. Nothing you ever say is along the lines of what Jesus preached concerning righteousness and good works.
Look again.
" Abide in Me and I in you." (v. 4a)
I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing." (v.5)
Question:
How much can the Christian do without abiding in Him ?
Answer:
Zippo! Nothing!, Zilch!,
Expected Pushback: "But that passage is about bearing other believers as fruit"
Response:
Bearing other believers as respondents of the Gospel certainly includes manifesting to them "the fruit of the Spirit" also. They believe because of your living as well as your reporting the gospel to them.
Without abiding in the living and available Spirit of Christ His life will not flow through us and we can do nothing.
Put another way - If we are very religious and do a lot of things apart from abiding in Christ, in the end it will all amount to "nothing".
I emphasize how to abide in Christ SO THAT, in reaction Christ can abide in us.
Do you really think asking me for the number of Jesus's commandments again will make me answer you? Ask again and again.
I know you're not going to answer. I have moved on. But you err in trying to make Jesus the new Moses with 600 some commands and ordinances written in the Old Testament.
What the New Testament talks about is "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"
You abide in Christ Jesus and His life, as a LAW, as a regulating energizing organic matter, leads the sons of God. Look at the two passages from Roman 8
" For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death." (Rom. 8:2)
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (v.14)
You say nothing about the Spirit of God - the Spirit of Christ - Christ (Rom. 8:9-10) .
Go learn what this means -
" Who has established us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant, ministers not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor. 3:17)
Get a book by Witness Lee called "The Experience of Life". Brother Lee will help you to understand the need to be constantly given divine life - moment by moment - day by day to be an overcomer.
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=3F00
There are other books that can help as well. Don't be proud and say you need no one's books. I play chess here. I am not too good. But I am getting better. I learn from others who have more skill.
Another book that could help you is "Sit, Walk, and Stand" by Watchman Nee.
At any rate, you should not consider the New Testament as the 11th plus 100 more commandments of God. The Command Keeper - the Son of God, come to LIVE inside of us as the life giving Spirit.
The sufficient ministers of the new covenant must be ministers of the Spirit.
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Here is the table of contents to Witness Lee's book The Experience of Life.
It is one of the best guideline to outlay the progression of spiritual growth that i know of .
The Experience of Life
CONTENTS
The First Stage—In Christ
Regeneration
Clearance of the Past
The Second Stage—Abiding in Christ
Consecration
Dealing with Sins
Dealing with the World
Dealing with the Conscience
Obeying the Teaching of the Anointing
Knowing the Will of God
The Third Stage—Christ Living in Me
Dealing with the Flesh
Dealing with Self
Dealing with the Natural Constitution
Accepting the Discipline of the Holy Spirit
Dealing with the Spirit
Being Filled with the Holy Spirit
The Fourth Stage—Christ's Full Growth in Us
Knowing the Body
Knowing the Ascension
Reigning
Spiritual Warfare
Full of the Stature of Christ
Originally posted by sonshipCase closed.
Here is the table of contents to Witness Lee's book [b]The Experience of Life
It is one of the best guideline to outlay the progression of spiritual growth that i know of .
You speak only about what Witness Lee says, and what other fallible men have spoken, and nothing of substance of what Jesus Christ preached.
If only you know how lost you truly are.
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23 Aug 16
Originally posted by Rajk999
Case closed.
You speak only about what Witness Lee says, and what other fallible men have spoken, and nothing of substance of what Jesus Christ preached.
If only you know how lost you truly are.
Case closed.
You may close any case you wish. There is still much to say about your OP No need to be like Christ?
OF COURSE there is a need for the Christian to be like Christ.
You speak only about what Witness Lee says, and what other fallible men have spoken, and nothing of substance of what Jesus Christ preached.
I recommend a book by a man deeply experienced. I do not recommend it just for the sake of pushing books by Lee. I recommend it because it is very helpful. And it is so in a progressing way, stage by stage, you learn.
That men are fallible is not an issue. I do not NOT listen to you because you are fallible. What I would hope to obtain from someone like yourself is a good presentation of the infallible word of God. Such requires some interpretation.
I will measure how good and helpful any interpretation from any fallible person is.
I am not impressed with someone saying that they ONLY and ALWAYS JUST read the Bible. That is their prerogative. I don't count any such extreme practice to be some guarantee of spiritual health.
Of course no expounding of man can REPLACE the pure word of God.
But FELLOWSHIP between the members of the Body of Christ is expected.
And the Body builds up itself in love.
" [Christ the Head] Out from whom all the body; being joined together and being knit together through every joint of the rich supply and through the operation in the measure of each one part, causes the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love." (Eph. 4:16)
If this passage doesn't mean anything to you at all, you should tell me. i do not hold it against you. But I would understand that your experience is limited and you cannot tell what Paul is speaking of here.
But generally, he is speaking of Christians helping each other to grow and mature spiritually. Even though they are fallible, they still are used by God to cause the growth of the Body of Christ, the church.
If only you know how lost you truly are.
Oh, give me a break!
I'm lost in JESUS
Do you know my Jesus ??
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The entire Christian life is matter of letting the living and available Spirit of Christ flow out of us and into all our living.
This is why Paul's one ambition, whatever his circumstances, was to be "found in Him"
The first step in always being found in Him is to stand upon the truth unwavering that if He comes INTO us we are absolutely one with Him. We are "one spirit" with Him.
" He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)
For the Christian, part of their being is already God
For the Christian who has received the Holy Spirit, part to her being is the Lord Jesus Crhist. How else can the word say the two spirits (the human spirit and the Holy Spirit) have become united in the joining to be "one spirit".
Now we are not USED to living this way. We are use to living apart from being joined to the Lord Jesus. So we need to be found in Him by turning our heart to that realm in which Christ lives in us.
" For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit the [human spirit JOINED to the Lord's Spirit] is life and peace." (Romans 8:6)
Rajk999 talks about the commandments of Christ. Paul here talks about the sense of divine life and peace as a indicator that we are setting our mind on Christ in our spirit.
So we need to return our mind to the spirit that is joined as one spirit with the Lord. And then we can be found by others in Christ. This was Paul's greatest desire.
" And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith." ( Phil 3:9) .
How ? By praying and proclaiming -
"Christ, You are my goodness. Christ You are my patience, Lord Jesus You Yourself are my longsuffering, my endurance, my love, my forgiveness, my EVERYTHING. Lord come into ALL the chambers of my soul. By faith I invite you to more and more make your home in my heart. "
By FAITH, we exercise to take Jesus Christ as out total personality.
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23 Aug 16
The Christians received Jesus the living Person. Then because of religion many got distracted.
We must come back from being distracted from Christ. God is teaching Christians how to come back. come back, come back to the indwelling Christ living in their spirit.
This is part of the Lord's recovery.
www.lordsrecovery.org
Originally posted by sonshipYour Ephesians 4 :16 is another good example of you cherrypicking Paul and ignoring the parts you dont like. Paul says exactly what Christ is saying, and its exactly what I keep saying ... but you rather believe the mumbo jumbo doctrine of Witness Lee :Case closed.
You may close any case you wish. There is still much to say about your OP [b]No need to be like Christ?
OF COURSE there is a need for the Christian to be like Christ.
[quote]
You speak only about what Witness Lee says, and what other fallible men have spoken, and nothing of substance of what Jesus Christ pr ...[text shortened]... e]
Oh, give me a break!
I'm lost in JESUS
Do you know my Jesus ??[/b]
Lets look at the whole passage:
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But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 4:15-5:5 KJV)
*****************************************************
Yes, Christians are to help each other.
Yes Christians must grow in Christ
Yes Christians must put away the old man
Yes Christians are a new man in Christ.
But thats not the end of it. Nobody gets into the Kingdom of God with these things. These things you agree with and which you emphasize, are not an end in themselves, they are a means to an end. The end result is getting into the Kingdom of God and you cannot contunue to ignore Paul and all the Apostles who teach that no Christian will enter the Kingdom of God if they continue with unrighteousness. Its not going to happen.
You ignore the long an detailed lecture on good works and righteousness which ends with eternal life.