11 Dec 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieYes you are right. Only God could be the one to say to us that an issue we believe in is 100% correct. No man can do that. That is something I think you agree with.
an elder explaining why something was implemented does not effect if its true or not. obviously they think its the correct and have a reason why. but that reason could be an error. asking the people who have made the initial error will only lead to you making the same mistake.
praying to god doesnt help the situation, god is not going to tell yo ...[text shortened]... could be doing something similar right, now.
maybe not, but you cannot rule it out.
But if one does not see in the Bible that God would and does work thru imperfect man just as he did in the early Christian days and shows that it would continue until Jehovah finally ends this system and his son takes over with the earth, what is one to do?
Be fearful of the men that God does use and say in affect "no way I'm going for that because they may make a mistake" and just do nothing?
Is that what God has said in the Bible? Are his followers not called many things such as a "flock" a "congregation", etc?
Or does God warn not to go on ones own understandings as that is not only dangerous but completely stops one from learning as the truths are brought out thru time?
If one does not accept and use the arrangment set up by God and his son, it is a real loss and basically ignoring the things God has implimented for us.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieAlso yes I have known many that did not agree with the info that has been discussed. Why wouldn't that happen? We are not robots.
an elder explaining why something was implemented does not effect if its true or not. obviously they think its the correct and have a reason why. but that reason could be an error. asking the people who have made the initial error will only lead to you making the same mistake.
praying to god doesnt help the situation, god is not going to tell yo ...[text shortened]... could be doing something similar right, now.
maybe not, but you cannot rule it out.
I knew of 1 elder back in the early 70's that really believed that 1975 was going to be the end of this system even though the Bible didn't say that nor did the WTS. They only said it was a marked year in human history.
I was only about 15 at the time but even with my little knowledge I knew he was wrong. So it can happen and will always happen.
We are not perfect and have never claimed to be.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo God communicates with the JW hierarchy via Holy Spirit passing his thoughts on to those who can communicate them into print thus distributing them to the plethora of congregations worldwide. But hang on, those thoughts of God may not be correct, because.............wait for it.............the channel with God is a little 'hazy'?! 😕
because
(1 Corinthians 13:11, 12) . . .When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to
think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man, I have
done away with the [traits] of a babe. [b]For at present we see in hazy outline by
means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially, ...[text shortened]... until the day is firmly established.
truth may be revealed gradually, not like an epiphany.[/b]
I love this idea that us imperfect humans can sit out our computers playing chess and have conversations with numerous people scattered round the globe, yet perfect God, he who created everything and he who is also omnipotent and whatever else it is that ends it 'ent' is having a trouble with his communication line. Maybe he should get in contact with Virgin Media, i hear they're offering some Xmas deals on fibre optic broadband line this time of year. Sounds like he may need an upgrade.
11 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Did you ostracize the "many that did not agree with the info that [had] been discussed" or were these many that disagreed allowed to continue attending meetings and argue their case?
Also yes I have known many that did not agree with the info that has been discussed. Why wouldn't that happen? We are not robots.
I knew of 1 elder back in the early 70's that really believed that 1975 was going to be the end of this system even though the Bible didn't say that nor did the WTS.
11 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Proper Knobno silly, our understanding is incomplete, our knowledge partial. It is self evident that divine truth is revealed gradually.
So God communicates with the JW hierarchy via Holy Spirit passing his thoughts on to those who can communicate them into print thus distributing them to the plethora of congregations worldwide. But hang on, those thoughts of God may not be correct, because.............wait for it.............the channel with God is a little 'hazy'?! 😕
I love this ide deals on fibre optic broadband line this time of year. Sounds like he may need an upgrade.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhen robbie says that something is "self evident" he is almost invariably referring - wittingly or unwittingly - to his own circular logic.
no silly, our understanding is incomplete, our knowledge partial. It is self evident that divine truth is revealed gradually.
11 Dec 12
2 edits
Originally posted by stellspalfieyou don't teach advanced concepts to chess players who are grasping the basics of
why is it release it gradually? what purpose does that serve?
pins, skewers, forks and discovered attacks. Learning is always a gradual process as
far as I can discern.
11 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieso i am guessing the reasons behind killing innocent children in noah's flood counts as advanced, right? the conquest of canaan, too? the binding of isaac?
you don't teach advanced concepts to chess players who are grasping the basics of
pins, skewers, forks and discovered attacks. Learning is always a gradual process as
far as I can discern.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by ZahlanziLOL, still hung up in the flood and your lovey dovey God who has not the will to
so i am guessing the reasons behind killing innocent children in noah's flood counts as advanced, right? the conquest of canaan, too? the binding of isaac?
administer divine justice and who says they were innocent? the scriptures state that the
heart of man was always bad from his youth up and that the reason was that the earth
became filled with violence? clearly it was irredeemable, as far as I am aware God
has never arbitrarily put anyone to death, in fact if you read that account where he
reasons with Abraham over the fate of Sodom, its self evident that he did not. Also the
people were preached to for over forty years and as the Christ stated they took, no
note, the fault was their own. Build your house on the San Andreas fault after repeated
warnings and then blame God when there is an earth quake and your house collapses
around you. It just about sums up your position Zippy!
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhen it comes to Noah's Flood, for instance, is your "understanding incomplete" and your "knowledge partial" as you concede above? If the "truth" is revealed only gradually to you, as you claimed a post or two ago, how far along with the process are you, would you say, with regard to the degree to which you understand or know God is or is not "lovey dovey" as you put it?
LOL, still hung up in the flood and your lovey dovey God who has not the will to
administer divine justice and who says they were innocent? the scriptures state that the
heart of man was always bad from his youth up and that the reason was that the earth
became filled with violence? clearly it was irredeemable
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11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobiewhat kind of 'advanced concepts' are there in 'new understandings'?
you don't teach advanced concepts to chess players who are grasping the basics of
pins, skewers, forks and discovered attacks. Learning is always a gradual process as
far as I can discern.
11 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by stellspalfiePaul related how the Jewish system relates to Christianity, in order to understand how it
what kind of 'advanced concepts' are there in 'new understandings'?
relates is a more advanced concept than understanding elementary doctrines for it
takes knowledge of the temple, the priesthood, etc, this led to a new understanding for
Christians. Today as say medical science advances principles which may have had
little bearing call for a new understanding of the application of those principles, blood
fractions being a case in point. In order to make an informed decision, one needs to
study these 'advanced concepts'.
btw do you only ask questions? have you nothing of your own to proffer?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut isn't it you - and not stellspalfie - who claims God has revealed himself to you? Isn't it you who claims to know what 'God's instructions' are and therefore what is and is not moral? Surely you'd accept that claims such as yours warrant scrutiny?
btw do you only ask questions? have you nothing of your own to proffer?
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11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieisnt asking questions the best way to learn? you guys believe in some pretty crazy stuff of which very little makes sense to me. i could ask question all day and night.
Paul related how the Jewish system relates to Christianity, in order to understand how it
relates is a more advanced concept than understanding elementary doctrines for it
takes knowledge of the temple, the priesthood, etc, this led to a new understanding for
Christians. Today as say medical science advances principles which may have had
lit ...[text shortened]... advanced concepts'.
btw do you only ask questions? have you nothing of your own to proffer?
if you want me to offer something back, then ask.