Originally posted by lemon limeYou were being asked to state your belief on whether there is "eternal suffering" and you wriggled and squirmed page after page after page before suddenly admitting "I don't know" and you kept with that page after page until someone said something to you about the "worm" symbolism and since then ~ that was thirteen days ago ~ it seems as if you now supposedly DO "know" that there is "eternal suffering" although you still don't seem to want to say anything unequivocal.
I don't know how it is you can be so easily befuddled by the infamous 'worm' incidence.
-Removed-One big difference between you and me is that I don't need to ask you what you believe.
We've both made it clear where we stand, but you and FMF never seem to tire of posing the same arguments, and asking the same questions and then ignoring whatever answers you get. I don't think either one of you is retarded, so there must be some other reason why neither of you can seem to get a clear handle on what has been said at these threads for how ever many months (years?) this has been going on. Maybe you can shed some light on this perplexing situation...
...or not.
Originally posted by lemon limeWhy not take this opportunity once and for all to state what your belief is? Is it more or less the same as sonship's or is it more akin to Suzianne's?
I don't think either one of you is retarded, so there must be some [b]other reason why neither of you can seem to get a clear handle on what has been said at these threads for how ever many months (years?) this has been going on..[/b]
Originally posted by lemon lime to divegeesterI don't think you have. I've been having a look for even just one example of you having "made it clear where [you] stand" and I can't find one. There was this something you said on 12th June:
We've both made it clear where we stand...
"I'm not sure what will happen to you in the lake of fire. I doubt it's a literal lake or fire in the conventional physical sense. But it probably best describes the sort of horrendous destructive force capable of eating away at your soul until nothing is left of you but a shriveled up "worm that dieth not". The smoke of your torment rising up forever doesn't tell me you will be tormented forever, but that's probably what it does mean seeing as how your worm will never die."
Is that an example of you having "made it clear where [you] stand"? And if not, can you cite an example of when you think you did?
4 edits
-Removed-How is not preaching something that is erroneous and so obviously morally repugnant "cheating people"?
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It is not repugnant to include in a complete presentation of the Gospel that God's righteous judgments are forever
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The entirety of Your word is truth, and all Your righteous judgments endure forever. (Psalm 119:160)
I said "include in a complete presentation".
I do not mean by this that eternal punishment is the only thing one should warn about in a presentation of the Gospel. I do not mean that eternal punishment need be the first thing to speak of. I don't mean one need hurry and teach it.
But Christ included words about it. And Christ directed His disciples to teach "all" that He commanded them.
"Go therefore and disciple all the nations ... Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you. And behold I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (See Matt. 28:19,20)
There is a time to tell people that Jesus rebuked His disciples for wanting to call fire down from heaven to burn up some city that rejected Him (Luke 9:55), scolding the angry disciples - "You do not know of what kind of spirit you are."
And there is also a time to tell them that Jesus spoke of "the eternal fire" which He calls "eternal punishment" (Matt. 25:41,46)
We should not be a one note piano player. And we should seek the wisdom of the Holy Spirit WHEN to speak of what.
Better still is to encourage people to read through all of the New Testament while we pray the Holy Spirit speak to their hearts what God would have them know. Then we can be ready for questions in which we might be able to assist them.
Originally posted by sonshipWhat if this results in them finding your 'torturer God' concept to be wrong and they tell you? Will you accept that the Holy Spirit figure you believe in has spoken to your heart in this way?
Better still is to encourage people to read through all of the New Testament while we pray the Holy Spirit speak to their hearts what God would have them know.