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Originally posted by @rajk999Simple straight forward unbelief is being presented by some.
Simple and straightforward - eg
thou shall not kill
blessed are the peacemakers
God loves a cheerful giver
the righteous will enter the Kingdom of God.
I can just hear Christ telling some Christians:
.. what is it about my commandment to love thy neighbour did you not understand ?
Originally posted by @sonshipYou should ask the web site's administrators to change the description of what this forum is intended for, then.
My sole intention is to make the truth known.
Sometimes discussion works.
At other times it is clear that argument will not help some unbelief.
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Originally posted by @thinkofone
Focus jaywill.
DG was speaking of John 14:6 in particular.
Your explanation of John 14:5-6 is so convoluted that, evidently, you are unable to keep things straight in your mind.
Do you really think this Rube Goldberg theology of yours isn't a convoluted mess?
You've not only made John 14:5-6 much more complicated than it is, you've completely missed the meaning of Jesus' words.
DG was speaking of John 14:6 in particular.
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Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life? Do you believe that no one comes to the Father except through Him?
If you can't bring yourself to admit that you believe then that is simply your unbelief in the Gospel. There is no need to dress this rejecting of His words into something else.
You just don't take it.
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Your explanation of John 14:5-6 is so convoluted that, evidently, you are unable to keep things straight in your mind.
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I am plumbing the depths of a profound matter. But if I simplified it into some Sunday School level for you, you still intend not to take it.
The Gospel of John ends by saying men can have life, the divine and eternal life "in His name". But you have to believe in the Son of God.
You don't have the courage to come right out and confess that you do not believe in the Son of God. You can conceal this cowardice and unbelief behind excuses of "convoluted" exploring of the text. But that is just an excuse.
"But these things have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, you may have life in His name." (John 20:31)
You ToO, cannot have life in His name if you do not believe Jesus lives, no matter how many times you tout out "Jesus when He walked on earth."
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Do you really think this Rube Goldberg theology of yours isn't a convoluted mess?
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I think some readers want to go deeper into the profundity of the Bible. The fact of the matter is that the Holy Bible is not always easy to understand.
But let me draw back for you into a simpler mode. You still won't take the words of Jesus in John 14.
Jesus says there that He is God incarnate. But you don't take it.
"Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father and it is sufficient for us. (v.8)
Jesus said to him, Have I been so long a time with you, and you have not known Me, Phillip?
Phillip requests that Jesus SHOW them "the Father". Jesus answers that by now they should have known HIm.
"Have I been so long a time with you, and you have not known ME ... Phillip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father.
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you, I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works." (vs.9-10)
You need revelation ToO.
You need the unveiling of your eyes.
You need God's mercy that the scales over the eyes of your heart would be removed.
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"So long a time" seems not to have helped you either. That is because you still hide your unbelief in the Son of God behind nice simple sounding words - "Jesus while He walked on earth."
You've not only made John 14:5-6 much more complicated than it is, you've completely missed the meaning of Jesus' words.
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No there are probably millions on earth who appreciate the deeper significance of John 14 as I have explained. They may not be in the majority of Christians.
Perhaps there are more Bible readers who think Jesus was talking about going to Heaven to spend two thousand years to fix up heavenly mansions. This is partly because of the poorer translation of the word there to "mansions" in the KJV.
But even apart from this matter the resurrection of Christ is strongly indicated in these chapters 14 - 16. And you don't believe even the more fundamental truth embodied there.
This is why you cannot bring yourself to confess that Jesus Christ is personally to you Lord.
If I draw back onto a simplier level that Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him and that to see Jesus is to see the incarnation of the Father - God become a man - you won't believe it.
Actually, what you call "focus" I would call your enslavement to blindness of not perceiving Who Jesus Christ is.
You are focused on the simplicity of your unbelief.
You are focused on the simplicity of your rejection of
Christ and His words and work.
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The Holy Spirit breathed into the disciples after Jesus was resurrected from the dead is the fulfillment of all those promises of the coming of:
"Another Comforter" (14:16)
the "He" Who "may be with you forever" (v.16)
"the Spirit of truth [or reality]" (v.17)
the One Who "shall abide in you".
John purposely wrote chapter 20's account to prove to the reader that Jesus kept His promise and sent INTO them the Third Person of the Triune God saying -
"Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22)
Put aside for a moment that the church is the dwelling place of God in spirit (Ephesians 2:22). But don't put it aside for too long.
Just to see that Jesus rose from the dead and sent Himself INTO His believers as the Holy Spirit is fundamental to the Gospel of John and to the whole New Testament.
Today we can receive Jesus Christ into our hearts.
Though we may not be with Him physically as He breaths into us as He did in chapter 20, we essentially also can receive life in His name. We can receive Him as the life giving Spirit which He became.
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Who do you think knows more about the Gospel? The Apostle Paul or ThinkofOne here, fighting against the resurrection behind pretty words - "Jesus while He walked on earth" ?
I trust Paul's experience and words which exactly mirror Christ's teaching in John 14. Christ became the life giving Spirit in order to enter into my deepest spiritual being.
Originally posted by @sonshipWhat is it about Jesus's commandment to love thy neighbour did you not understand ?
Simple straight forward [b]unbelief is being presented by some.[/b]
Why is hard to trust Christ when he said [many times], that all those who practice love for ones neighbour will enter the Kingdom of God.
Why? Because you and your doctrine are not of God. All your posts run contrary to and are at odds with the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
Originally posted by @sonshipBut you preach nothing of what Jesus said to preach.
My sole intention is to make the truth known.
Sometimes discussion works.
At other times it is clear that argument will not help some unbelief.
You see, the [b]New Testament itself tells us that some will receive the truth through "the foolishness of the preaching".
[quote] "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisd ...[text shortened]... ing will not be saved. They will not belieive in the living Person, the risen Christ, God's Son,
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Originally posted by @fmfThis description is adaquate to me.
You should ask the web site's administrators to change the description of what this forum is intended for, then.
Debate and general discussion of the supernatural, religion, and the life after.
Am I not debating?
Am I not having also general discussion?
You'll say - "you're preaching".
But as proved by the last several posts I respond to comments with discussion too.
You're welcomed to make your complaint to the site administrator if you wish.
You have nothing to say about John 14:5,6 ?
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Originally posted by @rajk999Did you get kicked out of the Jehovah's Witnesses?
But you preach nothing of what Jesus said to preach.
Or maybe you just took some classes with them and never joined?
Jesus taught that the Father was in Him and He was in the Father. John recalls. And John echoes the concept in his prologue -
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1)
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality." (v.14) Recovery Version
Other renderings of verse 14:
English Standard Version
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Berean Study Bible
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Berean Literal Bible
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And we beheld His glory, a glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
New American Standard Bible
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
King James Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
International Standard Version
The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth.
Originally posted by @sonshipMore labels, classifications and terms used by men.
Did you get kicked out of the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Or maybe you just took some classes with them and never joined?
Jesus taught that the Father was in Him and He was in the Father. John recalls. And John echoes the concept in his prologue -
[b] "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the ...[text shortened]... kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth.
I have no interest in that.
There are two kinds of people in this world according to Christ
Those who will enter the Kingdom of God
Those who will not.
Your preaching discourages people from following Christ.
Rather it encourages more people to follow the latter group.
Originally posted by @sonship
This description is adaquate to me.
[b] Debate and general discussion of the supernatural, religion, and the life after.
Am I not debating?
Am I not having also general discussion?
You'll say - "you're preaching".
But as proved by the last several posts I respond to comments with discussion too.
You're welcomed to ma ...[text shortened]... nt to the site administrator if you wish.
You have nothing to say about John 14:5,6 ?[/b]Using page 1 as an example. You post 12 times.
GoD asks a question and he is brushed off.
Dive raises another point and the same thing happens
How is that a discussion or debate?
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Originally posted by @rajk999
What is it about Jesus's commandment to love thy neighbour did you not understand ?
I understood this. And when I realized that this requires another life, a super life, a fineness and goodness that I do not have in myself - THEN I learned to appreciate His other words like in John 15 -
Apart from Him we can do .... NOTHING.
We have to receive Him in His state of resurrection.
And we have to abide in Him.
We have to let Him into our hearts by faith in His availability as a living Person. And we have to learn to live another way from how we have always lived before. We have to ABIDE in Him.
We have to remain in His presence and linger under His shadow and influence. He as a True Vine will flow into His abiding branches all the rich life of the Godman Jesus we need to love.
What is a matter with you ?
Paul said it was no longer he who lived by Christ lived in him.
"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God Who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through law, then Christ has died for nothing." (See Gal. 2:20,21)
You are tying to nullify the wonderful grace of God.
And this testimony of Paul exactly agrees with Christ's promise to come with His Father to make an abode with His lovers in John 14:23.
Time is swiftly passing by. You are wasting time. You need to begin to learn to live by abiding in the available risen and living Son of God.
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Why is hard to trust Christ when he said [many times], that all those who practice love for ones neighbour will enter the Kingdom of God.
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No wonder that you reject being born anew, being born again, being born from above. You reject being regenerated.
What Jesus commands requires another life.
You and I were not born naturally with this life.
We must be born anew.
Why? Because you and your doctrine are not of God. All your posts run contrary to and are at odds with the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
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Some are complaining that I don't discuss things.
You are one example of how discussion remains useless to you. Perhaps some reading along might get some help.