John 14:5,6

Originally posted by @divegeester
Whilst you will find my metaphor distasteful, I think you use this forum as your personal religious jizz-fest. You just rock up and jizz over the forum ignoring debate and deliberately bringing scorn upon yourself to satisfy your need for some sort persecution to validate your self-perception as an anointed minister of God.

To me this honestly how you come across....pun intended.

Well, ya can't please everyone.

Any refutation here that the Father's house is the church of the living God and the habitation of God in spirit?

No.
Let's go back and see if this grand discusser has any substantial correction to what he loaths to hear from me.

Originally posted by @sonship
Any refutation here that [b]"the Father's house" is the church of the living God as Peter, Paul, John agree ?

Nope.

Any refutation that the resurrected Christ formed such a corporate entity by coming into His redeemed people?

Nope.
Moving on.

Who is up next ?
Next discusser ?[/b]

What we've got from you in this thread are a dozen or more preachy posts (posted I suspect for your own grandiosity) and a handful of churlish posts under the false pretext of discussion. (So false in fact that you even chastised a poster for trolling who wasn't even responding to you).

Your consistent error is believing it is your prerogative to bring 'everything' to the table and others are only there to feast on what you provide.

Originally posted by @rajk999

Another comment from discusser Rajk999.
Let's check it out.

The risen and living Christ enters a whole lot of people.
All those who practice good works and righteousness have this risen and living Christ in them already.

According to the Gospel of John it is "as many as RECEIVED Him".

It is not as many as either received Him OR rejected Him.


These people are way past your blabbermouth type.
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Well the "bllabbermouth" passage says that only those who received Him, did He give the authority to become children of God.

Now I know you flatter atheists and crave their sympathy. And I know you would be enouraged by the Atheist pat on your back. But the "blabbermouth" passages says and strongly implies that -

Some people will RECEIVE the Son of God and some people WILL NOT RECEIVE the Son of God.

To those who RECEIVED the Son of God He gave a new birth and authority to become children of God - BORN of God.

Pull you head out of your rusty caste iron rectum for a moment and read it.

"He came to His own, yet those who were His own did not receive Him.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,

Who were BEGOTTEN not of blood,
nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man,
but of God. " (John 1:11-13)

Yes, yes we know! You're better than every Christian and rack up browny points which you rely on to enter into the kingdom of God.

You're a pseudo Moslem.

Oh, "BEGOTTEN ... of God" means they had an additional birth to the first natural birth. Otherwise they could not come along and be BEGOTTEN of God.

They were regenerated.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke

What we've got from you in this thread are a dozen or more preachy posts (posted I suspect for your own grandiosity) and a handful of churlish posts under the false pretext of discussion.

If you really cared about the truth, you wouldn't be bothered so much about style.

I don't think you really care to see into John 14 as to its truth. "preaching" is just an excuse for opposing the ministry of the Son of God.

(So false in fact that you even chastised a poster for trolling who wasn't even responding to you).

Discuss why "the Father's house" is not the church of the living God, the habitation of God in spirit founded by and through Christ's redemptive death and victorious resurrection.

Tell us why not.

Your consistent error is believing it is your prerogative to bring 'everything' to the table and others are only there to feast on what you provide.

Others have provided you an alternative explanation of "My Father's house". Tell us why what they put on the table is more believable then what I briefly presented.

Here's your chance to show a better explanation.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke

What we've got from you in this thread are a dozen or more preachy posts

Duke, Duke, if you really cared about getting the truth, you wouldn't let my preachy style stop you.

You would be like the Bereans who checked out everything according to the Scriptures. You'd ignore delivery and check out whether this is a reasonable explanation of the passage.

I met lots of pesky not so palatable Christians.
I concentrated on what was really the truth of the Bible.

Okay crowd, I get into a more "DISCUSS WITH ME" mode.

Why did Jesus say "If it were not so I would have told you" ?

What did Jesus mean that He was going to prepare rooms or abodes in His Father's house ?

Should we consider the OVERALL birds eye view of the Bible when examining a chapter like John 14 ?
You all tell us.

Is the Bible to some of you a disjointed and fragmented scrap book of unrelated chunks?

The "WAY" Jesus says He is, is the WAY to what? to WHERE ? Use the words from the mouth of Jesus Himself to show me what He meant.

Thoughout the Gospel of John Jesus speak of Him going somewhere where others could not come. At least as of YET they could not come. Where was that??

Case in point:

"Simon Peter said to Him, Lord, where are You going? Jesus answered him,

Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you will follow later." (John 13:36)

What do you think this means ?

I'll be back latter to see all the discussion of better ideas about these passages. Now if anyone is apathethic and doesn't give a hoot, I don't offer you a penny for your thoughts. Its not worth the penny.

But to those who want to put out some ideas how to understand the answers to these questions, - go right ahead.

Originally posted by @sonship

What we've got from you in this thread are a dozen or more preachy posts

Duke, Duke, if you really cared about getting the truth, you wouldn't let my preachy style stop you.

You would be like the Bereans who checked out everything according to the Scriptures. You'd ignore delivery and check out whether this is a reasonable explanation ...[text shortened]... of pesky not so palatable Christians.
I concentrated on what was really the truth of the Bible.

Your preachy monologues push me further from your God, not nearer.

I see no truth in your words.

Originally posted by @sonship
Another comment from discusser Rajk999.
Let's check it out.

The risen and living Christ enters a whole lot of people.
All those who practice good works and righteousness have this risen and living Christ in them already.

According to the Gospel of John it is [b]"as many as RECEIVED Him".

It is not as many as either received ...[text shortened]... th. Otherwise they could not come along and be BEGOTTEN of God.

They were regenerated.[/b]

Nice one :

Pull you head out of your rusty caste iron rectum for a moment and read it.

Got that somewhere from the writings of Witness Lee?

Originally posted by @sonship
Another comment from discusser Rajk999.
Let's check it out.

The risen and living Christ enters a whole lot of people.
All those who practice good works and righteousness have this risen and living Christ in them already.

According to the Gospel of John it is [b]"as many as RECEIVED Him".

It is not as many as either received ...[text shortened]... th. Otherwise they could not come along and be BEGOTTEN of God.

They were regenerated.[/b]

The ones who RECEIVE CHRIST, are the ones who .. :

See Christ an hungred, and ye gave him meat:
See Christ thirsty, and ye gave him drink:
See Christ a stranger, and ye took him in:
See Christ Naked, and clothed him :
See Christ sick, and visited him :
See Christ in prison, and ye came unto him.
(Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)

These are the children of God, who Christ will welcome into the Kingdom of God.

You receive Christ by following his commandments. There is no other way.

But you preach receiving Christ with your mouth .. you are a preacher of mouthworhip.

Originally posted by @sonship
[b]
Do you really think this Rube Goldberg theology of yours isn't a convoluted mess?
---------------------------------------------

I think some readers want to go deeper into the profundity of the Bible. The fact of the matter is that the Holy Bible is not always easy to understand.

But let me draw back for you into a simpler mode. You ...[text shortened]... f your eyes.
You need God's mercy that the scales over the eyes of your heart would be removed.[/b]

You still won't take the words of Jesus in John 14. Jesus says there that He is God incarnate. But you don't take it...Phillip requests that Jesus SHOW them "the Father". Jesus answers that by now they should have known HIm....You need revelation ToO.
You need the unveiling of your eyes.

Seriously jaywill. Jesus does not say that He is God incarnate in John 14. Jesus doesn't even come close to saying it. The reality is that YOU say Jesus is God incarnate based on a nonsensical interpretation of what Jesus says to Philip. In effect, you are putting YOUR words in JEsus' mouth.

I posted the following a while back, but it seems applicable here:

Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of Jesus "abiding" in people and do not believe that those people and Jesus are one and the same.
Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of God "abiding" in Jesus in a similar manner.

Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of being able to "see Jesus" in the works some people do and do not believe that those people and Jesus are one and the same.
Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of being able to "see God" in the works Jesus did in a similar manner.

Perhaps these concepts can be best understood through the following:

John 14
9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

Clearly Jesus makes a distinction between Him and God.
Clearly Jesus expects Philip to be able to "see" the Father in the works that He does with the Father abiding / working within Him.

Jesus explains a similar concept here

John 12
44And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.

Clearly Jesus makes a distinction between Him and God.
Clearly Jesus expects His followers (believers) to be able to "see God" in Him. This is similar in concept to where Jesus expects Philip to "see" the Father in the works that He does with the Father abiding / working within Him.

Originally posted by @sonship
[b]
DG was speaking of John 14:6 in particular.
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Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life? Do you believe that no one comes to the Father except through Him?

If you can't bring yourself to admit that you believe then that is simply your unbelief in the Gos ...[text shortened]... is no need to dress this rejecting of His words into something else.

You just don't take it.[/b]

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life? Do you believe that no one comes to the Father except through Him?

Why are you pretending that I haven't addressed this? I've posted the following more than a couple of times now:

Presumably the impetus for this thread came from our discussion in the "The Only Sin that God Cannot Forgive" thread.

There I posted the following:
"[In John 14:5-6] Jesus is speaking of the gospel that He preached during His ministry.He is speaking of the words He spoke while He walked the Earth."

To that I'll add:
The words that Jesus spoke when he preached His Gospel during His ministry ARE "the way, and the truth, and the life". No one comes to the Father but through "the way, and the truth, and the life".

Originally posted by @sonship
Well, ya can't please everyone.

Any refutation here that the Father's house is the church of the living God and the habitation of God in spirit?

No.
Let's go back and see if this grand discusser has any substantial correction to what he loaths to hear from me.

I made my points earlier in this jizz-fest of a thread, and you ignored them.

Originally posted by @sonship
This description is adaquate to me.

[b] Debate and general discussion of the supernatural, religion, and the life after.

Am I not debating?
Am I not having also general discussion?

You'll say - "you're preaching".
But as proved by the last several posts I respond to comments with discussion too.

You're welcomed to ma ...[text shortened]... nt to the site administrator if you wish.

You have nothing to say about John 14:5,6 ?[/b]

You have nothing to say about John 14:5,6 ?

Did you actually say what you think Jesus was saying in John 14:6 in and of itself? It was hard to tell amongst all the flotsam. To be clear, I'm talking about John 14:6 and only John 14:6. Spare me your kitchen sink approach.

Originally posted by @thinkofone

Jesus does not say that He is God incarnate in John 14. Jesus doesn't even come close to saying it. The reality is that YOU say Jesus is God incarnate based on a nonsensical interpretation of what Jesus says to Philip.
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What He says about seeing Him is seeing the Father is exactly along the line of the Word being with God and being God who tabernacled among us (John 1:1,14) .

I don't for a second think you have a better inside story about it then the apostle John.


In effect, you are putting YOUR words in JEsus' mouth.
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Which word did i put into His mouth:

"Have I been so long a time with you and you have not known Me Phillip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

I posted the following a while back, but it seems applicable here:

Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of Jesus "abiding" in people and do not believe that those people and Jesus are one and the same.
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Still wrong.
What most Christian may say does not govern but what the NT says which many Christians will give heed TO:

"For even as the body is one and has many members, yet all the members of to body, being many, are one body, so also is the Christ." (1 Cor. 12:12)

The Body of Christ is "the Christ".
God is recovering these truths.

It is fascinating that Paul did not say "so also is the church" though he could have. He chose his words carefully and under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit -

" ... so also is THE CHRIST"

Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of God "abiding" in Jesus in a similar manner.
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"Thomas said to Him, My Lord and my God!

Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me you have believed ..." (John 20:28,29a)

Jesus, John, and Thomas I believe.
I don't trust for a second that you have a better inside story.


Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of being able to "see Jesus" in the works some people do and do not believe that those people and Jesus are one and the same.


Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of being able to "see God" in the works Jesus did in a similar manner. [/b]
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You let your unbelief be governed by what "seems most Christians ..." this or that. I will believe that God became real to me when I called on the name of the Lord Jesus.

And of course I believe that the Word was with God and was God.

I know that you do not confess Jesus Christ as your Lord.
And I know that no one can say "Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit" .

cont. below

Originally posted by @thinkofone

Clearly Jesus makes a distinction between Him and God.
Clearly Jesus expects Philip to be able to "see" the Father in the works that He does with the Father abiding / working within Him.
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I never said that there was no distinction.
There is distinction but there is no separation.

There is distinction between the Word and the God with Whom the Word was. But there is no separation, because "the Word was God."

He became flesh and tabernacled among us (John 1:14).
I don't regard the apostle John as having to sit and your modernist johnny-come-lately skeptical feet to get a better inside story on what he experienced and saw.