Jesus IS Jehovah

@galveston75 said
1 John 1:2 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
2 The life appeared,
and we have seen it.
We are testifying to it
and announcing it to you —
eternal life!

He was with the Father,
and he appeared to us."


Please comment on this one scripture. No comments on anything else but this one scripture.
Does it say he is the Father? No it doesn't. What does it sa ...[text shortened]... her and the son.
Again I would like a comment on this scripture...................................

Christ - the preeminent One in the old creation.
Christ - the preeminent One in the new creation.
Christ - the preeminent in ALL THINGS.

No where in this scripture does this speak of Jehovah or imply this is about him. This is about Jesus only and is describing who he is in regards to his position under his father and above all other things that have positions both in heaven and on earth. No angels or humans have a higher authority.
The point you continually miss is Jesus is only in this position because of his Father Jehovah giving it to him.
This scripture is not at all saying that Jesus is equal to his Farther. You want it too so it will fit the trinity somehow. You can't take one or two scriptures that seem to suggest what you want them to and blatantly ignore the rest of the Bible that completely deny's the trinity. But that is your option....

Jesus commanded the apostles:
"go and baptise in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit."

There is not one instance in the entire NT where the disciples baptised using the trinitarian formula - which incidentally is entirely relevant.

The disciples baptised using the name of Jesus every single time without fail - thus: I baptise you in the name of Jesus Christ

and never: I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit

So what is the one single name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy ghost? it is Jesus. Jesus is the name of the Father and the holy spirit - it's right there in Acts!

Irrespective of doves, prayers, calling out, they are the same single person, the same single entity. Not three. Three is pagan and totally unscriptural. The disciples new this.

No comment from any Christian on this in either thread that I posted in. Not even some heavy layers of sand from sonship.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

Matthew 27:46

@galveston75

The point you continually miss is Jesus is only in this position because of his Father Jehovah giving it to him.

"And I saw, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and of the living creatures and of the elders, and their number was ten thousand of ten thousands and thousands of thousands.

Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb who has been slain to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.

And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and all things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.

And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the elders fell down and worshipped." (Revelation 5:11-14)

@divegeester said
No comment from any Christian on this in either thread that I posted in. Not even some heavy layers of sand from sonship.

@sonship said
@galveston75

The point you continually miss is Jesus is only in this position because of his Father Jehovah giving it to him.

This is rebellion. And I think it leaves you without any love at all for Jesus. I think your religion is based on annoyance and I would even say hatred for the Son of God.

The universal worship which is rendered to God alone ...[text shortened]... b]"to Him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb"[/b].

Those who have taught have cheated you.

@galveston75 said
Lol. How in the world do you get that we, the JW's do not love Jesus? He is our savior because his Father Jehovah gave him that privileged and honor. If Jesus had not given his life for all humans none of us would have a chance to ever get out and away from our sins. He has been set up by Jehovah to do this. Jesus did not have to do what his Father asked of him so how eve ...[text shortened]... his judgment: “I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”​—Matthew 7:22, 23.

@divegeester Nope..not interested at all.

@galveston75 said
@divegeester Nope..not interested at all.

Not a Plural God

JESUS called God “the only true God.” (John 17:3) Never did he refer to God as a deity of plural persons. That is why nowhere in the Bible is anyone but Jehovah called Almighty. Otherwise, it voids the meaning of the word “almighty.” Neither Jesus nor the holy spirit is ever called that, for Jehovah alone is supreme. At Genesis 17:1 he declares: “I am God Almighty.” And Exodus 18:11 says: “Jehovah is greater than all the other gods.”

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word ʼelohʹah (god) has two plural forms, namely, ʼelo·himʹ (gods) and ʼelo·hehʹ (gods of). These plural forms generally refer to Jehovah, in which case they are translated in the singular as “God.” Do these plural forms indicate a Trinity? No, they do not. In A Dictionary of the Bible, William Smith says: “The fanciful idea that [ʼelo·himʹ] referred to the trinity of persons in the Godhead hardly finds now a supporter among scholars. It is either what grammarians call the plural of majesty, or it denotes the fullness of divine strength, the sum of the powers displayed by God.”

The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures says of ʼelo·himʹ: “It is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute.” To illustrate this, the title ʼelo·himʹ appears 35 times by itself in the account of creation, and every time the verb describing what God said and did is singular. (Genesis 1:1–2:4) Thus, that publication concludes: “[ʼElo·himʹ] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty.”

ʼElo·himʹ means, not “persons,” but “gods.” So those who argue that this word implies a Trinity make themselves polytheists, worshipers of more than one God. Why? Because it would mean that there were three gods in the Trinity. But nearly all Trinity supporters reject the view that the Trinity is made up of three separate gods.

The Bible also uses the words ʼelo·himʹ and ʼelo·hehʹ when referring to a number of false idol gods. (Exodus 12:12; 20:23) But at other times it may refer to just a single false god, as when the Philistines referred to “Dagon their god [ʼelo·hehʹ].” (Judges 16:23, 24) Baal is called “a god [ʼelo·himʹ].” (1 Kings 18:27) In addition, the term is used for humans. (Psalm 82:1, 6) Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” [ʼelo·himʹ] to Aaron and to Pharaoh.—Exodus 4:16; 7:1.

Obviously, using the titles ʼelo·himʹ and ʼelo·hehʹ for false gods, and even humans, did not imply that each was a plurality of gods; neither does applying ʼelo·himʹ or ʼelo·hehʹ to Jehovah mean that he is more than one person, especially when we consider the testimony of the rest of the Bible on this subject.

Jesus a Separate Creation

WHILE on earth, Jesus was a human, although a perfect one because it was God who transferred the life-force of Jesus to the womb of Mary. (Matthew 1:18-25) But that is not how he began. He himself declared that he had “descended from heaven.” (John 3:13) So it was only natural that he would later say to his followers: “What if you should see the Son of man [Jesus] ascend to where he was before?”—John 6:62, NJB.

Thus, Jesus had an existence in heaven before coming to the earth. But was it as one of the persons in an almighty, eternal triune Godhead? No, for the Bible plainly states that in his prehuman existence, Jesus was a created spirit being, just as angels were spirit beings created by God. Neither the angels nor Jesus had existed before their creation.

Jesus, in his prehuman existence, was “the first-born of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15, NJB) He was “the beginning of God’s creation.” (Revelation 3:14, RS, Catholic edition). “Beginning” [Greek, ar·kheʹ] cannot rightly be interpreted to mean that Jesus was the ‘beginner’ of God’s creation. In his Bible writings, John uses various forms of the Greek word ar·kheʹ more than 20 times, and these always have the common meaning of “beginning.” Yes, Jesus was created by God as the beginning of God’s invisible creations.

Notice how closely those references to the origin of Jesus correlate with expressions uttered by the figurative “Wisdom” in the Bible book of Proverbs: “Yahweh created me, first-fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I came to birth; before he had made the earth, the countryside, and the first elements of the world.” (Proverbs 8:12, 22, 25, 26, NJB) While the term “Wisdom” is used to personify the one whom God created, most scholars agree that it is actually a figure of speech for Jesus as a spirit creature prior to his human existence.

As “Wisdom” in his prehuman existence, Jesus goes on to say that he was “by his [God’s] side, a master craftsman.” (Proverbs 8:30, JB) In harmony with this role as master craftsman, Colossians 1:16 says of Jesus that “through him God created everything in heaven and on earth.”—Today’s English Version (TEV).

So it was by means of this master worker, his junior partner, as it were, that Almighty God created all other things. The Bible summarizes the matter this way: “For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things.” (Italics ours.)—1 Corinthians 8:6, RS, Catholic edition.

It no doubt was to this master craftsman that God said: “Let us make man in our image.” (Genesis 1:26) Some have claimed that the “us” and “our” in this expression indicate a Trinity. But if you were to say, ‘Let us make something for ourselves,’ no one would normally understand this to imply that several persons are combined as one inside of you. You simply mean that two or more individuals will work together on something. So, too, when God used “us” and “our,” he was simply addressing another individual, his first spirit creation, the master craftsman, the prehuman Jesus.

Could God Be Tempted?

AT MATTHEW 4:1, Jesus is spoken of as being “tempted by the Devil.” After showing Jesus “all the kingdoms of the world and their glory,” Satan said: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” (Matthew 4:8, 9) Satan was trying to cause Jesus to be disloyal to God.

But what test of loyalty would that be if Jesus were God? Could God rebel against himself? No, but angels and humans could rebel against God and did. The temptation of Jesus would make sense only if he was, not God, but a separate individual who had his own free will, one who could have been disloyal had he chosen to be, such as an angel or a human.

On the other hand, it is unimaginable that God could sin and be disloyal to himself. “Perfect is his activity . . . A God of faithfulness, . . . righteous and upright is he.” (Deuteronomy 32:4) So if Jesus had been God, he could not have been tempted.—James 1:13.

Not being God, Jesus could have been disloyal. But he remained faithful, saying: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”—Matthew 4:10.

How Much Was the Ransom?

ONE of the main reasons why Jesus came to earth also has a direct bearing on the Trinity. The Bible states: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Timothy 2:5, 6.

Jesus, no more and no less than a perfect human, became a ransom that compensated exactly for what Adam lost—the right to perfect human life on earth. So Jesus could rightly be called “the last Adam” by the apostle Paul, who said in the same context: “Just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.” (1 Corinthians 15:22, 45) The perfect human life of Jesus was the “corresponding ransom” required by divine justice—no more, no less. A basic principle even of human justice is that the price paid should fit the wrong committed.

If Jesus, however, were part of a Godhead, the ransom price would have been infinitely higher than what God’s own Law required. (Exodus 21:23-25; Leviticus 24:19-21) It was only a perfect human, Adam, who sinned in Eden, not God. So the ransom, to be truly in line with God’s justice, had to be strictly an equivalent—a perfect human, “the last Adam.” Thus, when God sent Jesus to earth as the ransom, he made Jesus to be what would satisfy justice, not an incarnation, not a god-man, but a perfect man, “lower than angels.” (Hebrews 2:9; compare Psalm 8:5, 6.) How could any part of an almighty Godhead—Father, Son, or holy spirit—ever be lower than angels?