It desires to have you

Originally posted by KellyJay
Sure, just keep points short and sweet.

edited.

Originally posted by sonship
edited.

I WAS hoping for a little more. 🙂

Originally posted by dj2becker
Ah yes everyone who forgets the password to an account that haven't used for a decade is up to no good.

It was you pretending to be a different person ~ and retreading a previous discussion as if it were the first time and as if you were not the same poster ~ that has damaged your integrity in this incident.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I WAS hoping for a little more. 🙂

I am sorry. I will give this subject more attention soon.

I imagine that Cain and Abel were both fine looking men whose countenances were striking. But when God rejected Cain's offering Cain's expression fell. And he displayed a very angry, hurt, and offended look on his face.

Outwardly they both appeared the same. But God sees deeply into the heart of man. And Cain's coming to God improperly causes something deep in his heart, hidden from other men, to be touched. For to deal with God is to deal with one Who knows our innermost motive, thought, intention and will.

" But for Cain and his offering He [God] had no regard. And Cain became very angry and his countenance fell.

And Jehovah said to Cain, Why are you angry and why has your countenance fallen ?

If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and his desire is for you, but you must rule over him." (Gen. 4:5-7)

God wanted Cain as much as He wanted Abel. God loved Cain as much as He loved Abel. But the two men's coming to offer worship to God caused something in one to be exposed - something deep in the heart.

I'll stop this post here for length.
What do you think, if anything, was "touched' in Cain that God filtered out ?

Originally posted by sonship
I imagine that Cain and Abel were both fine looking men whose countenances were striking. But when God rejected Cain's offering Cain's expression fell. And he displayed a very angry, hurt, and offended look on his face.

Outwardly they both appeared the same. But God sees deeply into the heart of man. And Cain's coming to God improperly causes something ...[text shortened]... here for length.
What do you think, if anything, was "touched' in Cain that God filtered out ?

I agree something was touched in Cain, and was revealed and it turned out to be very
bad and ugly. Which I think happens to us all, as we get angry, lustful, envy, boastful,
prideful, and loving, kind. When things come and go in our lives, we reveal what manner
of people we are by how we react. I think when Jesus tells us to pick up our crosses and
follow Him, we are to take things in our life that would cause us to be bitter and justly so
we nail it to our own crosses, and follow Him. So if someone offends us, either real or
imagined we can nail to our cross that which is done to us, and ask God to forgive them.
We have a right to that anger, but better it is to give it to God, and not ask or desire
revenge ourselves. If we are asking that God forgive the wrongs done to us, real or
imagined, the root of bitterness will not be able to spring up in our hearts and defile us.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I agree something was touched in Cain, and was revealed and it turned out to be very
bad and ugly. Which I think happens to us all, as we get angry, lustful, envy, boastful,
prideful, and loving, kind. When things come and go in our lives, we reveal what manner
of people we are by how we react. I think when Jesus tells us to pick up our crosses and
foll ...[text shortened]... or
imagined, the root of bitterness will not be able to spring up in our hearts and defile us.

I agree something was touched in Cain, and was revealed and it turned out to be very bad and ugly.

There is something happening here which is far beyond just a matter of two men's spirituality. What is exposed is Satan plot to oppose the will of God in fulfilling His purpose on the earth.

Though both men may have been unaware of the larger role each was playing, God and the Devil knew. And the Devil utilized Cain to oppose God from accomplishing His plan to bring in one who would crush the head of the serpent as God had promised -

" And I will put enmity between you and the women and between your seed and her seed;

He will bruise you on the head, But you will bruise him on the heel." (Gen. 3:15)

Can you see the spiritual warfare taking place in this account of Cain and Abel?

Cain was being fully usurped and used by Satan. Satan even caused Cain to hit Abel in the head thinking that any promised "seed" of the woman on God's side would be immediately killed. But God cannot be stopped.

The whole rest of the Bible discloses this warfare and how the seed of the woman finally comes to crush the Devil on the earth.

But we must see that the prevailing church takes a part in this. For the church must become the corporate Christ- the enlarged Christ - the Christ wrought into and worked into many people on the earth. Then the saints take place in the execution of Satan which has been headed up by Christ.

Paul tells the church in Rome of this in the concluding section of the basic letter of Christian teaching - Romans.

" Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you." (Rom. 16:20)

Which I think happens to us all, as we get angry, lustful, envy, boastful,
prideful, and loving, kind. When things come and go in our lives, we reveal what manner
of people we are by how we react.

Yes. Whatever God's enemy can do to distract, side-tract, and keep the human preoccupied with to fight off their function to become saturated with the divine nature, joined with Christ and CRUSH the enemy of God and man.

I think when Jesus tells us to pick up our crosses and
follow Him, we are to take things in our life that would cause us to be bitter and justly so
we nail it to our own crosses, and follow Him.

To pick up the cross means to deny the self.
To deny the self is to enjoy something ELSE instead other than the self.

This enjoyment must be the enjoyment of Christ living in us who have been saved.
Jesus Christ has come to live within all those who have been saved through His eternal redemption.

Paul learned will this cross. And he "crossed out" the self which is something that developed from the fall of Adam. And instead he enjoyed Christ living in him. Again, as a pioneering disciple of Jesus, Paul learned to pick up his cross, so to speak, and learn to deny the fallen self in exchange for learning the living of Christ in him.

" I am crucified with Christ "

That is the first step in "picking up our cross". It begins with our seeing that indeed we HAVE been crucified with Christ. Of this we should not let the enemy of God keep us unbelieving and ignorant.

"What then shall we say? Should we continue in sin that grace may abound?

Absolutely not! We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it? Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life. " (Rom. 6:1-4)

The Recovery Version is very good in its translating of what Paul wrote in Greek in verse 5. It brings out the process of growing into this reality by means of sanctification. Look how Paul spoke of growth here in the next verse 5.

"" ... so also we might walk in newness of life. For if we have GROWN together with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection." ( vs. 4c,5)

As Christ spread in us, filling us up more and more and more we co-experience what has been accomplished - our death with Christ and are being raised with Christ. We begin more and more to grow into walking in newness of divine life.

This is definitely a process of the God of peace crushing Satan also under the feet of the church-ing people. That is the normal prevailing New Testament church life.

I stop here for length. But I think I should include the rest of Galatians 2:20 which proves the Christians new life is actually Christ living in him or her practically.

" I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through law, then Christ has died for nothing," (Gal. 2:20,21)

I agree something was touched in Cain, and was revealed and it turned out to be very
bad and ugly. Which I think happens to us all, as we get angry, lustful, envy, boastful,
prideful, and loving, kind. When things come and go in our lives, we reveal what manner
of people we are by how we react. I think when Jesus tells us to pick up our crosses and
follow Him, we are to take things in our life that would cause us to be bitter and justly so
we nail it to our own crosses, and follow Him. So if someone offends us, either real or
imagined we can nail to our cross that which is done to us, and ask God to forgive them.
We have a right to that anger, but better it is to give it to God, and not ask or desire
revenge ourselves. If we are asking that God forgive the wrongs done to us, real or
imagined, the root of bitterness will not be able to spring up in our hearts and defile us.

This is very good. I will comment and agree with you further latter.

Of course seeing what God has forgiven each of us does help to enable us to forgive others. God does not remember our sins if they are under the blood of Jesus.

If I were to ask God about my past sins He would say that He doesn't remember. it is good for us to remind ourselves when tempted to be unforgiving, that because of the blood of Christ shed for us, God promised that He would no longer remember our sins by any means.

This is a bequest of the new covenant. I skip some sentences below in this promise of the new covenant in order to highlight the part about Him not remembering our iniquities by any means.

" ... the days are coming, declares Jehovah, when i will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, ...

For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares Jehovah; I will put My laws within them ...

for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin i will remember no more."

See the full passage in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Talk further with you latter,

Originally posted by sonship

I agree something was touched in Cain, and was revealed and it turned out to be very
bad and ugly. Which I think happens to us all, as we get angry, lustful, envy, boastful,
prideful, and loving, kind. When things come and go in our lives, we reveal what manner
of people we are by how we react. I think when Jesus tells us to pick up our crosses ...[text shortened]...

See the full passage in [b]Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Talk further with you latter,[/b]

On a side note for me this is interesting since for a week or so in my personal study I've
been reading and dwelling on how God gives and takes away. With that I see that
regardless of what is going on in our lives we are not only commanded to, but I find it
safer to praise the Lord in the midst of all things we are going through. With that it is
easier when we see others despitefully using us, or as bad when in our wicked
imaginations, we think we are being despitefully used, that we take what is going on and
nailing it to our crosses asking God to forgive those that are harming us. We yes could
hold things against anyone, but do we want our sins held against us? So for Jesus sake
we forgive since He died for them, and if we lose something or it’s taken away, what have
we that has not come from the Lord? It is better to not have so much we forget God, or to
little that we murmur and possibly curse God.

Originally posted by KellyJay

On a side note for me this is interesting since for a week or so in my personal study I've been reading and dwelling on how God gives and takes away.

It is good to think of it as His taking away and giving - in THAT order.
For what He desires to give is Christ, wrought into your being. He takes away the old and imparts the new.

I could not argue that in one sense it seems He gives and then takes away. But the giving by God - the dispensing of Himself, is the latter part of the process.

With that I see that regardless of what is going on in our lives we are not only commanded to, but I find it safer to praise the Lord in the midst of all things we are going through.

Yes, if we can praise God in the midst of all changing circumstances we can be overcomers. I think that regardless of what we know or understand, if we show God that we trust Him regardless of our adverse circumstances, we will be conquerors.

With that it is easier when we see others despitefully using us, or as bad when in our wicked imaginations, we think we are being despitefully used, that we take what is going on and nailing it to our crosses asking God to forgive those that are harming us. We yes could hold things against anyone, but do we want our sins held against us?

This is very good. But I cannot fellowship very much at this time. I hope to talk latter.

Originally posted by sonship

On a side note for me this is interesting since for a week or so in my personal study I've been reading and dwelling on how God gives and takes away.

It is good to think of it as His taking away and giving - in THAT order.
For what He desires to give is Christ, wrought into your being. He takes away the old and imparts the new.

I coul ...[text shortened]...


This is very good. But I cannot fellowship very much at this time. I hope to talk latter.

Sounds good

Originally posted by KellyJay

With that it is
easier when we see others despitefully using us, or as bad when in our wicked
imaginations, we think we are being despitefully used, that we take what is going on and
nailing it to our crosses asking God to forgive those that are harming us. We yes could
hold things against anyone, but do we want our sins held against us? So for Jesus sake
we forgive since He died for them, and if we lose something or it’s taken away, what have
we that has not come from the Lord? It is better to not have so much we forget God, or to
little that we murmur and possibly curse God.

For the Christian, the loving and forgiving One lives in his spirit. This living of Jesus within is called "grace". And in this grace we are empowered.

I have to turn my heart with my mind to the Lord Jesus living in me to be empowered in the realm of His indwelling life.

Paul's word to Timothy:

" You therefore, my child, be empowered in the grace which is in Christ Jesus ... Suffer evil with me as a good soldier in Christ Jesus." (See 2 Tim. 2:1,3)

This grace I compare to power steering in an automobile. We Christ within can energize and uphold, supplying His finest humanity. Christ can supply us with His perfect virtues and empower us. The only way is to enjoy Him being everything we need.

For longsuffering, for forgvieness, for wisdom, for everything we need to be empowered in the grace.

I wrote that Paul told Timothy to be "empowered in the grace which is in Christ Jesus."

Related to your subject, the enemy of God is working in us from the outside towards the center. The Savior Jesus Christ as "a life giving Spirit" is working from the innermost part of man - outward. The two are bound to clash. This is the battle. And we are the battlefield.

Christ is working from the inside out. Christ is working from the human spirit out into the human soul and eventually out even into the physical body. Satan, practically personified as sin, is opposing Christ and seeking to possess man from the outside - the fallen body, inward.

But Christ is the greater One in the believer. We failed in ourselves. But Christ overcame in every way. Satan had no ground, no vantage point, no level of conquered space in the Man Jesus.

" ... the ruler of this world is coming, and in Me he has nothing." (See John 14:30)

Satan had and still has no stronghold, no ground, to vantage point anywhere in this Man. And He overcame the one who has the desire to have all fallen human beings.

"It desires to have" God spoke of sin. But Jesus demonstrated and spoke that He overcame.

" These things I have spoken to you that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have affliction, but take courage; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)

He also said that in His form of resurrection, we believers can LIVE because He LIVES.

" Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live.

In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:19,20)

We can overcome because Jesus Christ, first cleansing and forgiving all our sins, can then come to live in us. In resurrection He became in a form in which He, the Man Jesus, can come and combine with us, blend with us, live in us and empower us to live in union with Him.

He became a divine life imparting, life giving, life dispensing Spirit.

"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

So if we need forgiveness - that ability is in Christ and IS Christ.
So if we need forebearance - that ability is also in Christ.
If we need longsuffering - that ability is also Christ and come with the life giving Holy Spirit.

So John says this "greater" One is living in the born again human being.

" You are of God, little children; and have overcome them because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4)

We have no time to waste. We should first receive Christ and then go on to learn to live by Christ.

Originally posted by sonship
For longsuffering, for forgvieness, for wisdom, for everything we need to be empowered in the grace.

I wrote that Paul told Timothy to be [b]"empowered in the grace which is in Christ Jesus."

Related to your subject, the enemy of God is working in us from the outside towards the center. The Savior Jesus Christ as "a life giving Spirit" is ...[text shortened]... have no time to waste. We should first receive Christ and then go on to learn to live by Christ.[/b]

God's grace, His love directs us with what He has given us to realize that He wants to
reach out into this dark world. When you look at how we are to treat each other, and see
the hate the world has the contrast is stunning. We are directed to treat others well when
we look at how we want to be treated. The hateful comments here show us we have a
way to go, since out of the abundance of our hearts do our mouths speak.


Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

From Message - The Joy Of the Lord Is Your Strength
The Collected Works of Watchman Nee, Set Two. Vol. 46 [my bolding]

According to Nehemiah 8:10, the joy of the Lord is our strength. It is not a matter of having strength because we have peace. His joy upholds us. In 1 Thessalonians 5:16 Paul commands us to always rejoice. How is this possible? How can we rejoice in difficulties, distresses, trouble, etc.? Where does this joy come from? We cannot manufacture it, because if we do not have it, we just do not have it! In Philippians 4:4 the apostle gives us the secret: "Rejoice in the Lord." Lord, Your joy is my strength! What is the joy of the Lord? How often did the Lord rejoice? The fact of the Lord rejoicing is only recorded once so it is easy for us to get the meaning. The Lord had apparently failed in His ministry to Tyre and Sidon (Luke 10:13-15). Verse 21 says, "In that hour He exulted in the Holy Spirit and said, I extol You, Father,...because You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes. Yes, Father, for thus it has been well pleasing in Your sight." Jesus Christ rejoiced to do God's will; He rejoiced in God's will. The Lord's joy had nothing to do with circumstances. He said, "Father...it has been well pleasing"—it is Your will. There was no kicking against, no rebellious thought, no question of why He should go through all this. "Father,...it has been well pleasing in Your sight" is all. A man was visiting a school for the blind and asked the children why they were blind. There was an awful silence, and then one child replied with tears running down his face, "Father, it pleases Thee." We have to see that our Lord had a joy; it was the joy of God's will being done.ave to try to copy the Lord, but that the very joy that He had—the joy of the Lord—is ours.
...

We can have something of the Lord imparted to us. We can have the joy of the Lord; His joy will be our strength.

The worst kind of life to live is a life of reactions in which we are always affected by persons or circumstances. This means that we are living by something which is outward, something which is not from the Lord. What does it mean to live a life of reactions? It means that when we speak and someone receives our message we are full of joy, but that we are just the opposite when our message is not received. We are affected by this and that; everything causes a reaction in us, and we are constantly up or down. This kind of life shows that our being is not in the Lord. Of course, we are still in the flesh and we do feel things, but these feelings must never be so strong that we live by them. We must cease from a life of reactions. But this can only happen when we live by the joy of the Lord. When we are tempted to be down, we should look up and say, "Has the Lord lost His joy today?" If He has, then we can be content to be joyless! None of us can have real strength by being cast down. If we praise the Lord, there is strength. As soon as we have lost our joy, we have lost our strength. This is the reason we are told to give thanks. We should say with a heart bent towards His will, "Lord, I do not mind. It has pleased You; therefore, it pleases me." We must live by something that is in Him. It is not a matter of our joy but of His joy; not a matter of our peace but of His peace. When we are feeling flat, the only thing that can raise us up is the joy of the Lord. We have to learn to live above our troubles.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?cid=290E