Originally posted by CalJustNot all of those who have been given the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher at the moment of salvation grow in grace [become sufficiently mature] to recognize their gift; some who do become distracted by other local church activities [the responsibility of those with the gifts of administration and helps] and fail to exercise the gift as the Holy Spirit intended. God's omniscience knew this would occur yet respected their volitional free will. He also provides other pastor/teacher options for church members who are eager to grow in grace.
Again, missing the point entirely or introducing red herrings.
It was you that said that the Holy Spirit gave pastors/teachers as a gift to the church to ensure True Doctrine, and a defense against error. or words to that effect.
Now you say that many of these (the "few" being the exception) are actually not worth listening to?
The "few" of cou ...[text shortened]... nly the pastor of the particular person claiminig to have the Full Truth.
Like you, for example.
30 Jul 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeGD, I appreciate your thoughtful question. Rather than provide a summary answer, I'll include it on my Priority Do This Week List. Okay?
"Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding." (PRO 4:7)
"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." (ECC 1:18)
"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." (1CO 1:19)
Ple ...[text shortened]... se account for the above contradictions that seem to fall outside your stated specification. Thanks.
30 Jul 15
Originally posted by checkbaiterThis Edward Fudge? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Fudge
Did I say it did?
Pastors and Teachers disagree amongst themselves.
Again, here is a Teacher worth listening to...
"The fire that consumes", by Edward Fudge...
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/[WORD TOO LONG] ...[text shortened]... 26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D150%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.[WORD TOO LONG]
30 Jul 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThread 158740 "April 9, 2024 (8 Pages)
Hmm... Suzi, was it you? I do remember her contributing to this thread. This evening I'll try to find it.
Thank you, Suzianne....
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyGod created the "lake of fire".
[b]Is Hell Forever? Evangelicals and Eternal Retribution
(Reprinted with permission from Voice, Sept./Oct, 2001. By Dr. James R. Mook)
"Will the destiny of the unsaved be eternal conscious torment or annihilation (total cessation of existence)? The eternal conscious punishment of the lost has always been a fundamental doctrine of Christian ortho ...[text shortened]... estions will be reserved until the presentation of this scholarly study is completed. Thank you.[/b]
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Done deal. Hard to imagine. Does it matter whether whoever is "cast" into the lake of fire remains there forever, or is permanently destroyed?
The real question is will you live forever with God. Do you have eternal life? There's only one way. Only God can give eternal life. It's so simple and basic. Eternal life, or death. Believe God and be saved from death. Believe God and recieve eternal life.
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Originally posted by josephwI think that statement needs some careful consideration sir.
Does it matter whether whoever is "cast" into the lake of fire remains there forever, or is permanently destroyed?
Imagine you have a friend who is not a Christian, and indeed ends up in the lake of fire. Would you really be indifferent as to whether or not he was destroyed immediately or remained there 'suffering' for all eternity?
The Ghost has spoken wisely...
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeOriginally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding." (PRO 4:7)
"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." (ECC 1:18)
"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." (1CO 1:19)
Ple ...[text shortened]... se account for the above contradictions that seem to fall outside your stated specification. Thanks.
"Please account for the above contradictions that seem to fall outside your stated specification. Thanks."
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GD, here's some background from an exhaustive scholarly analysis of the meanings of the word "wisdom" which appears in both the Old and New Testaments. I'd encourage you to set aside the 15 to 20 it'll take to read the entire document. Then let's resume our discussion here in "Is Hell Forever?" or alternatively begin a separate new topic thread for the purpose next week. Thanks again. -GB
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"Easton's Bible Dictionary: A moral rather than an intellectual quality. To be "foolish" is to be godless (Psalm 14:1; Comp. Judges 19:23; 2 Samuel 13:13). True wisdom is a gift from God to those who ask it (Job 28:12-28; Proverbs 3:13-18; Romans 1:22; 16:27; 1 Corinthians 1:17-21; 2:6-8; James 1:5). "Wisdom" in Proverbs 1:20; 8:1; 9:1-5 may be regarded not as a mere personification of the attribute of wisdom, but as a divine person, "Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God" (1 Corinthians 1:24). In Matthew 11:19 it is the personified principle of wisdom that is meant."
"Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
1. (n.) The quality of being wise; knowledge, and the capacity to make due use of it; knowledge of the best ends and the best means; discernment and judgment; discretion; sagacity; skill; dexterity. 2. (n.) The results of wise judgments; scientific or practical truth; acquired knowledge; erudition...." http://biblehub.com/topical/w/wisdom.htm
31 Jul 15
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyNow you are just repeating yourself.
Not all of those who have been given the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher at the moment of salvation grow in grace [become sufficiently mature] to recognize their gift; some who do become distracted by other local church activities [the responsibility of those with the gifts of administration and helps] and fail to exercise the gift as the Holy Spirit i ...[text shortened]... He also provides other pastor/teacher options for church members who are eager to grow in grace.
I agree with you whole-heartedly that many pastor-teachers are NOT fulfilling their true God-ordained function.
However, my point was that each and every group (you, for example) will claim that YOUR PARTICULAR pastor-teacher is 100% sound and kosher, and that the OTHERS, such as RC, dive, etc, are wrong.
Not much ojectivity there, I'm afraid.
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31 Jul 15
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou're gonna make me do homework?
GD, here's some background from an exhaustive scholarly analysis of the meanings of the word "wisdom" which appears in both the Old and New Testaments. I'd encourage you to set aside the 15 to 20 it'll take to read the entire document. Then let's resume our discussion here in "Is Hell Forever?" or alternatively begin a separate new topic thread for the purpose next week. Thanks again. -GB
🙁