23 Oct 06
Originally posted by vistesdA list of early Christian writings is at the appropriately named http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
Do you have handy a reference to gospels that denied Jesus' divinity or flesh and blood existence? Thanks, if you do. I just don't know, but I'll go do my own research if I need to... I've read Thomas, which I don't recall denying either (but I might just have forgotten) and I may have excerpts from others, but I don't know which ones to look for...
The people at Bruno's Revenge (Frogstomp and others) might have more specific references to those that deny Jesus' divinity and/or that he was flesh and blood; I recall these being discussed in their private forums which I no longer have access to. I'll research further.
It should be noted that the Gospel of Thomas makes no claim that Jesus was resurrected from the dead, thus making the claim that this event is absolutely necessary to Christianity dubious, unless you want to use circular reasoning.
23 Oct 06
Originally posted by no1marauderThanks. I'll take a look...
A list of early Christian writings is at the appropriately named http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
The people at Bruno's Revenge (Frogstomp and others) might have more specific references to those that deny Jesus' divinity and/or that he was flesh and blood; I recall these being discussed in their private forums which I no longer have ac ...[text shortened]... t is absolutely necessary to Christianity dubious, unless you want to use circular reasoning.
24 Oct 06
Originally posted by vistesdHow about d) Allegory...?
You have three choices there: (a) it is a one-time supernatural event that defies (by definition) common sense (or practical investigation), or (b) it is legitimate myth, or (c) it is a rank deceit. Personally, I go with (b); I have great respect for myth.
Despite LH's suggestion that a mythical Jesus was conspired by some Jewish boy-scouts, the number of well-formed scenarios that cover the mythical Jesus hypothesis aren't quite that simple. While believers such as Freaky and LH are quick to dismiss the parallels between Jesus and earlier mythical heroes, it does not take a great deal of imagination to see that Christian beliefs are partially grounded in previous mytho-theologies.
Some interesting articles evolving on Earl Doherty's webpage:
http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm
24 Oct 06
Originally posted by no1marauderEasy reading:
more specific references to those that deny Jesus' divinity and/or that he was flesh and blood
http://www.religioustolerance.org/resurrec3.htm
(short version)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/resur_lt.htm
(longer)
Supposedly the people who collated the Q gospel [ http://www.religioustolerance.org/gosp_q.htm ] didn't mention the resurrection. How that was determined is something I'd like to know more about.
24 Oct 06
Originally posted by David CHow about d) Allegory...?
How about d) Allegory...?
Despite LH's suggestion that a mythical Jesus was conspired by some Jewish boy-scouts, the number of well-formed scenarios that cover the mythical Jesus hypothesis aren't quite that simple. While believers such as Freaky and LH are quick to dismiss the parallels between Jesus and earlier mythical heroes, it does not take a great ...[text shortened]... ing articles evolving on Earl Doherty's webpage:
http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm
Yes. I need to come up with a short-hand word that covers all the non-literal, non-historical possibilites...
24 Oct 06
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage🙄
Easy reading:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/resurrec3.htm
(short version)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/resur_lt.htm
(longer)
Supposedly the people who collated the Q gospel [ http://www.religioustolerance.org/gosp_q.htm ] didn't mention the resurrection. How that was determined is something I'd like to know more about.
My links are about resurrection denial, not docetism.
Try the "Acts of John".
30 Oct 06
Originally posted by PenguinThe best religion? What does best have to do with anything?
This topic came up on the Evolution thread but has nothing to do with Evolution so I've started a new one.
A bit of the original discussion follows the end of this for context.
Basically, DJ pointed me at Ravi Zacharias for an objective explanation of why Christianity holds more value than any other religions and why it should be believed more than the ...[text shortened]... spelcom.net/epages/rzim.storefront/4522082d00c13a34271d45579e7c0602/Product/View/SBK9
Is it real, if not who cares?
Kelly
30 Oct 06
Originally posted by KellyJayWell what I meant was, there are hundreds of different religions out there (anything from around 50 to around 500 depending on how you subdivide them) and have been thousands in the history of humanity. All these religions claim to be The Truth. By definition, not more than one of these religions can be The Truth. The 'best' one is the one that really is The Truth.
The best religion? What does best have to do with anything?
Is it real, if not who cares?
Kelly
So how do we distinguish the true religion (if any of them are) amongst all the false ones. We don't want to be praying to Ra if the true gods are the olympian ones and we're getting all the ceremonies wrong.
--- Penguin.
30 Oct 06
Originally posted by PenguinPerhaps the truth (whatever that is) lies outside religion, but religion can guide people to it.
By definition, not more than one of these religions can be The Truth.
The comment about Ra and the Olympians--well, as far as I know, none of the old pagan religions claimed an exclusive title to the truth. You could honour Ra and Zeus...