Illusions opinions reality

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Why would you think that?

Earlier you said there was no such things as good when we were talking. Was it just you kidding around?

@fmf said
Who is arguing "anything goes" when it comes to "this moral thing"?

Are you not someone who says all us have a moral compass that can point into any direction? Wouldn't that mean whatever they want, however they want it, would have to be as acceptable as anything one else' views? You cannot say that all views are equal, and have some better than others, that would mean what you had said about all views would be wrong.

@kellyjay said
So living in an illusion is okay if it makes one happy?

The problem is, Kelly, that you think that what you do not agree with (i.e. the other guy's belief) is an illusion.

To him (the other guy) YOUR belief is an illusion.

THAT is basically the reason why you should give to others the same rights and respect that you would like them to give to you.

And it's not a bad idea to start by not calling their faith an illusion.

@kellyjay said
Are you not someone who says all us have a moral compass that can point into any direction?

There are people who act in an immoral way regardless of what their moral compass does or doesn't tell them, assuming they even have one at all, sure, but who is arguing that "anything goes" when it comes to "this moral thing"?

@kellyjay said
Wouldn't that mean whatever they want, however they want it, would have to be as acceptable as anything one else' views?

If someone else's actions were morally unsound, how would that be "acceptable" to me?

KellyJay, have you not been reading what I have been posting on the subject of morality?

@kellyjay said
You cannot say that all views are equal, and have some better than others, that would mean what you had said about all views would be wrong.

I haven't said all views are "equal". I haven't said "all views [are] wrong". Of course, as a moral agent, I believe some people and behaviours are "better" than others. So do you, and it's your moral compass - and mine - that enables you and me to make that kind judgement and then decide how to respond or act.

Why don't you address what I actually say in my posts rather than try to paraphrase me, incoherently or uncomprehendingly, only then to address your false paraphrasing rather than my own clearly expressed ideas?

@fmf said
If someone else's actions were morally unsound, how would that be "acceptable" to me?

KellyJay, have you not been reading what I have been posting on the subject of morality?

Morally unsound? You are making a judgment call how? If everyone has their own moral compass pointing in any direction how can anyone be unsound, it is their compass not yours? All you are doing is sharing your dislike towards one, that isn't a moral judgment call that is a personal opinion.

@fmf said
I haven't said all views are "equal". I haven't said "all views [are] wrong". Of course, as a moral agent, I believe some people and behaviours are "better" than others. So do you, and it's your moral compass - and mine - that enables you and me to make that kind judgement and then decide how to respond or act.

Why don't you address what I actually say in my posts rather than ...[text shortened]... ehendingly, only then to address your false paraphrasing rather than my own clearly expressed ideas?

If everyone has a moral compass, and they can all point in any and all directions. Then you reject everyone's or anyone's moral compass as being less than you are claiming that the direction they look when they follow their moral compass is wrong, less than, in some error. If that is the case than not all compasses are pointing in the direction they should be, so they would be wrong, bad, maybe even evil! Why, because they are not pointing towards a good that sets up a compass to do the right things.

You cannot claim we all just walk the way we walk because we have our own moral compasses and then condemn some for what they do. If there is a judgment between each moral compass, that judgment will apply to every moral compass, even yours!

@caljust said
The problem is, Kelly, that you think that what you do not agree with (i.e. the other guy's belief) is an illusion.

To him (the other guy) YOUR belief is an illusion.

THAT is basically the reason why you should give to others the same rights and respect that you would like them to give to you.

And it's not a bad idea to start by not calling their faith an illusion.

Pay attention to what was really written please.

I put forward two possible outcomes and said each could be an illusion including mine. It isn't that we all don't have the rights to think what we will, no one can actually take that way from anyone else no matter what, we believe what we believe. I don't have issue one with someone who believes differently than I do, I respect someone who will defend their beliefs.

I think someone who attacks another for their beliefs personally is a pitiful excuse of a human being, who is just scum avoiding a debate of ideas for the joy of insult, because they view them as someone less than. Without the nerve of discussing ideas instead wishes to express their views on the person, not the ideas. You can look at this place and pick out some who hardly ever keep to the points, but all they do is try to find personal flaws to exploit as if that addresses the points brought up.

If your foundational views are not based on truth, what then would they be based upon if not an illusion, or something false?

@fmf said
I haven't said all views are "equal". I haven't said "all views [are] wrong". Of course, as a moral agent, I believe some people and behaviours are "better" than others. So do you, and it's your moral compass - and mine - that enables you and me to make that kind judgement and then decide how to respond or act.

Why don't you address what I actually say in my posts rather than ...[text shortened]... ehendingly, only then to address your false paraphrasing rather than my own clearly expressed ideas?

I wish you'd do me the honor of sticking to those things I've said instead of changing them to suit your "opinions".

@kellyjay said
Earlier you said there was no such things as good when we were talking. Was it just you kidding around?

Not wanting to go into sonship mode, but can you quote me in context. I certainly said people were not evil in the absence of God. (And that 'good' is subjective and may vary between societies and time periods).

@kellyjay said

I put forward two possible outcomes and said each could be an illusion including mine. It isn't that we all don't have the rights to think what we will, no one can actually take that way from anyone else no matter what, we believe what we believe. I don't have issue one with someone who believes differently than I do, I respect someone who will defend their beliefs.

If ...[text shortened]... s are not based on truth, what then would they be based upon if not an illusion, or something false?

OK Kelly, I am prepared to try to have another proper discussion with you, but let us take it one step at a time.
I think it is commendable that you "don't have an issue with someone who believes differently" than you do. That is a great start.

But then in your final sentence you refer to "truth" again, and oppose that to "illusion".

Question 1: Am I right in assuming that what you refer to as "truth" is the way you currently believe, and someone else who believes differently (say I, or fmf, or Ghost, or Galv - or even sonship from the LCM) is suffering from an illusion?

Question 2: If that is so, what do you see your responsibility being:
(a) Showing them the error of their ways and leading them to know the truth?
(b) Shunning them?
(c). Saying to them "Go in peace, brother, and live your life fully in harmony with those around you. Try not to hurt yourself or others."

If you answer these two simple questions honestly, we may be making progress towards some kind of common understanding.

@caljust said
I totally agree with this pov, Ghost.

I am just reading some books by Chinua Achebe, the first of four is called "Things Fall Apart", about the first white men coming to Nigeria in the late 1800s.

Whilst the white missionaries to, say, Africa, did a lot of good (like building schools and hospitals) they did an incredible amount of bad by trying to "save" the heathen ou ...[text shortened]... is my culture and my belief. If you don't take it, lock stock and barrell , you will burn in hell".

People who agree with me tend to have a more productive day.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke
😄

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Not wanting to go into sonship mode, but can you quote me in context. I certainly said people were not evil in the absence of God. (And that 'good' is subjective and may vary between societies and time periods).

kellyjay said
"Which means that there isn’t any real evil, just those things we disliked passionately?"

ghost-of-duke said,
"Okay, you've convinced me. There is no such thing as evil."

If it is always opinions then there is never "a" good only, just opinions that come and go with the wind. You don't think that is true? If there is a good and evil, then opinions either line up with them or not, but opinions really don't define them, opinions will forever be nothing more than personal taste, which will always vary from person to person, from time to time, from culture to culture, or society to society.