How can a Good God send people to hell?

Originally posted by vistesd
There's the ole Will Campbell influence comin' out! 🙂

KellyJay does have a point. Pharoah was not inclined to let Israel go in the first place. rwingett is correct in God's role in manipulating Pharoah, but only in the latter stages. As I interpret it, God did not want to let Pharoh change his mind too early, on account of a payback for Israel's suffering had to be made. Hence, when it was time to leave, the fed up Pharoh handed over to them the spoils of Egypt. So the matter of free will at the time of the plagues is irrelevant since Pharoh had already willed the enslavement of Israel and was now suffering the consequences.

Originally posted by Regicidal
KellyJay does have a point. Pharoah was not inclined to let Israel go in the first place. rwingett is correct in God's role in manipulating Pharoah, but only in the latter stages. As I interpret it, God did not want to let Pharoh change his mind too early, on account of a payback for Israel's suffering had to be made. Hence, when it was time to leave, t ...[text shortened]... e Pharoh had already willed the enslavement of Israel and was now suffering the consequences.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
"Pharoah was not inclined to let Israel go in the first place. "


Yes he was. God created him knowing that he would. God did not create him any other way. This is to say that the Pharoah was inclined to let Israel go all the time, he just didn't know it yet.

Originally posted by Regicidal
That's a broader issue of what exactly is free will. I'm just confining it to the exodus text at hand and assuming free will exists (which is the biblical assumption) and clarifying what "God" was up to in "hardening pharoah's heart", namely retribution. In this context, it doesn't matter whether pharoah was inclined or not to let Israel go. He was already guilty.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
But God made him in such a manner that the Pharoah had no choice but to make the choices he did. If he could make choices that God did not know in advance, that would go against the concept of divine omniscience.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
So you are saying that god is not omniscient?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm saying God has given us the ability to make our choices,
and they are our choices to make. At some point even you and
I can know what someone will do without to much worry about
being surprised. I imagine that God has a little more going for
Him than we do so when He is satisfied someone's course has
been set by themselves it is set without surpris ...[text shortened]... even though
we can guess what someone will do, we can get it wrong from
time to time.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
Well according to your theory, god is omnicient, therefore already knew at the birth of our universe exactly who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. Where is free will in that case?

Originally posted by kirksey957
Goddammit, let's leave freewill out of this discussion. I'm trying to get this boy to come to Jesus.

What bothers me about alot of Christians is that they always have their cookie cutter answers. They can't just say I don't know the answer to everything. I honestly think some will be in heaven that most christians would not believe and vise versa.


Manny

Originally posted by vistesd
Ah, dj—I hope you are well.

Sometimes, I think that in your honest evangelical enthusiasm, you think that those of us who do not share your faith must be ignorant, ill-informed, not well-read on the subject—or just perverse. I was a Christian for most of my life (till I was nearly 50), though not in the so-called “evangelical” stream. I was, (later in l ...[text shortened]... ere it goes—

All who are born of the wind travel so.

________________________

Be well.

Originally posted by rwingett
I don't really know enough about relativity to say I 'believe' it in the sense you seem to be indicating. I suspect it is a 'likely scenario' is about all I'd be willing to commit to.

Originally posted by kirksey957
And so begins your process of complicating things. I'm gonna keep it at "scratch" level. I am a simple nigger in the vineyard of the Lord and Jesus loves me. If "Jesus loves me this I know" is good enough for children, why do we need to go complicating things? What did Jesus say about children?

Is you really saved?

Originally posted by menace71
Will those who are in Heaven still have free will ?? What if after 100,000 years they get tired of worshipping God can they do something else. I think also those in hell who have free will if they could have the choice would want to leave hell??If hell is the place of suffering decribed. Who in there right mind would want to go to such a place of suffering?? Granted there may be some who would.

Manny