Hitler

Originally posted by FMF
And yet your ideology and mindset resulted you blurting it out.

Could a baby possibly have a fit of rage when you take it's toy away, because it is by nature selfish and doesn't want to share?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Could a baby possibly have a fit of rage when you take it's toy away, because it is by nature selfish?

You still banging on about how babies are disobeying your God figure's will?

Originally posted by FMF
You still banging on about how babies are disobeying your God figure's will?

You just don't want to admit that babies are selfish by nature. That much is obvious. And obviously you can't stand the possibility that babies possibly have a sinful nature.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You just don't want to admit that babies are selfish by nature.

You mean things like crying in the night when the parents are trying to get some sleep?

Originally posted by FMF
You mean things like crying in the night when the parents are trying to get some sleep?

That's not the example I gave and you know it. Ever tried taking sweets from a baby?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
That's not the example I gave and you know it. Ever tried taking sweets from a baby?

So to debate your ideology you need to bandy about the word "selfish" as it applies to babies but you also need to sidestep the question of whether a baby crying in the night when the parents are trying to get some sleep is an example of them being "selfish". That's your prerogative. What moral issue does taking sweets from a baby raise in your mind and according to your ideology?

Originally posted by FMF
So to debate your ideology you need to bandy about the word "selfish" as it applies to babies but you also need to sidestep the question of whether a baby crying in the night when the parents are trying to get some sleep is an example of them being "selfish". That's your prerogative. What moral issue does taking sweets from a baby raise in your mind and according to your ideology?

In my opinion a child may cry at night because they are hungry/thirsty or because they have separation anxiety and not necessarily because they are selfish. Why do you think babies are not selfish by nature?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Why do you think babies are not selfish by nature?

If by "selfish" you mean lacking consideration for others then, no, I don't think they are. I think attempting to dissect the degree of "consideration for others" exhibited by a human baby ~ and then attempting to link this to a notion of it being an example of having a nature inclined to disobey a supernatural entity's instructions ~ is taking ideology to a ludicrous extreme.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
In my opinion a child may cry at night because they are hungry/thirsty or because they have separation anxiety and not necessarily because they are selfish.

If a baby cries in the night because it is frightened for no good reason or simply wants comfort, company or attention, even though the parents are tired, are they - in your view as a Christian - examples of it being inclined to disobey your God figure [a.k.a. having a "sinful nature"]?

Originally posted by FMF
If by "selfish" you mean lacking consideration for others then, no, I don't think they are. I think attempting to dissect the degree of "consideration for others" exhibited by a human baby ~ and then attempting to link this to a notion of it being an example of having a nature inclined to disobey a supernatural entity's instructions ~ is taking ideology to a ludicrous extreme.

If by "selfish" you mean lacking consideration for others then, no, I don't think they are.

If I may ask, have you ever raised a child? Did you never feel that your child when it was a baby put it's own needs ahead someone else's?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If I may ask, have you ever raised a child? Did you never feel that your child when it was a baby put it's own needs ahead someone else's?

Yes I have raised children. That's why I am aghast at the boggle-eyed nature of your ideology. I was always perfectly comfortable and pleased that my baby was able to make its needs known to me. I never once thought - it never ever once even crossed my mind - that my baby was being "selfish".

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If I may ask, have you ever raised a child?

Has the conjunction of your own experience with babies on one hand and your religious ideology on the other resulted in you observing the seeds of "evil" of mankind in what you see as their "selfishness" and "rage"?

Originally posted by FMF
Yes I have raised children. That's why I am aghast at the boggle-eyed nature of your ideology. I was always perfectly comfortable and pleased that my baby was able to make its needs known to me. I never once thought - it never ever once even crossed my mind - that my baby was being "selfish".

So your babies would always share their toys when they had playmates?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So your babies would always share their toys when they had playmates?

Both my children used to like lending or giving their toys away when they were toddlers. When they were babies they pissed and poo'd and puked and cried and grabbed toys and threw toys and chewed toys and banged toys together, with or without other babies around. You want me to believe they were in all this already exhibiting some "sinful" nature and, therefore, a predisposed inclination to disobey the Christian God?

Originally posted by FMF
Has the conjunction of your own experience with babies on one hand and your religious ideology on the other resulted in you observing the seeds of "evil" of mankind in what you see as their "selfishness" and "rage"?

I believe the Bible teaches that we are all born with a sinful nature. My experience with my kids does not seem to contradict this. I did not teach my kids to lie or be selfish, it comes naturally. Rather, I have to go to great lengths to teach them to tell the truth and put others first.