Spirituality
02 Jan 20
30 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidThere are plenty of examples of 'evil' in the world that are not caused by us. If this is not the case, go ahead and prevent the next earthquake, famine or tsunami.
Allowing us to act as we will is what is going on. The evil in the world is done by us, we can stop it or take part. Perfectly loving, define how that should work in your opinion.
A perfectly loving deity (who also happens to be all wise and all-powerful) should intervene to prevent such horrors. The fact that He doesn't validates either His non existence, or that He lacks omnipotence or Omni-benevolence.
30 Jan 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNatural catastrophes you call evil, that because you don't like what happens? Would the same thing be true of cancer in the life of a heavy smoker? Something terrible happening to me or any other doesn't mean something evil was involved. Typically using the word evil is usually reserved for something done to someone by someone.
There are plenty of examples of 'evil' in the world that are not caused by us. If this is not the case, go ahead and prevent the next earthquake, famine or tsunami.
A perfectly loving deity (who also happens to be all wise and all-powerful) should intervene to prevent such horrors. The fact that He doesn't validates either His non existence, or that He lacks omnipotence or Omni-benevolence.
30 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidCan't have it both ways kelly. If God is the creator of everything then 'natural catastrophes' have His fingerprints all over them.
Natural catastrophes you call evil, that because you don't like what happens? Would the same thing be true of cancer in the life of a heavy smoker? Something terrible happening to me or any other doesn't mean something evil was involved. Typically using the word evil is usually reserved for something done to someone by someone.
And okay, heavy smoker gets cancer. Can the same flippancy be applied to a child dying of cancer?
30 Jan 20
1 edit
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI have said everything is with cause, cancer, choices and other events are no different. Make your home on fault earthquakes are part of your reality. Make your home near water hurricanes, and other natural disasters can hit. Cross the street without looking both ways can get you killed.
Can't have it both ways kelly. If God is the creator of everything then 'natural catastrophes' have His fingerprints all over them.
And okay, heavy smoker gets cancer. Can the same flippancy be applied to a child dying of cancer?
All of those are not someone making it a choice, putting their lusts and hate, above another well being.
30 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidPlease talk me through the choices a child has made when it comes to cancer. What has that child done to cause such a disease? What lusts or hate have they exhibited to bring about such a fate?!
I have said everything is with cause, cancer, choices and other events are no different. Make your home on fault earthquakes are part of your reality. Make your home near water hurricanes, and other natural disasters can hit. Cross the street without looking both ways can get you killed.
All of those are not someone making it a choice, putting their lusts and hate, above another well being.
In such exchanges you always try to deflect to examples where man can be held responsible. What about those examples where he can't. Again, what of that child that D.Z Philips referenced, dying of cancer. Please address that.
30 Jan 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou or a child don't have to make a choice for bad things to occur, but all occurrences go back to some cause until one that is without causes. Does anything happen for no reason in your universe? So whatever our physical makeup, we can live as a healthy or infirmed individuals, those results could be related to choices made by your ancestors or our environment.
Please talk me through the choices a child has made when it comes to cancer. What has that child done to cause such a disease? What lusts or hate have they exhibited to bring about such a fate?!
In such exchanges you always try to deflect to examples where man can be held responsible. What about those examples where he can't. Again, what of that child that D.Z Philips referenced, dying of cancer. Please address that.
30 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidOr indeed to God's non-existence.
You or a child don't have to make a choice for bad things to occur, but all occurrences go back to some cause until one that is without causes. Does anything happen for no reason in your universe? So whatever our physical makeup, we can live as a healthy or infirmed individuals, those results could be related to choices made by your ancestors or our environment.
30 Jan 20
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
How can one be an exact representation of another's being? In human terms I guess a clone could be the exact representation of one's self
30 Jan 20
@menace71 saidSorry old chap. Can you elaborate on that?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
How can one be an exact representation of another's being? In human terms I guess a clone could be the exact representation of one's self
31 Jan 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidCan we explain the existence of everything with a first cause?
Or indeed to God's non-existence.
God is the first cause, is a supernatural thing.
Can we explain the existence of everything with no first cause?
Everything from nothing would be a supernatural thing.
Can we explain everything's existence by saying it was always here?
Everything always being here would a supernatural thing.
You are never going to be able to avoid the supernatural, which one fits the universe as we see it? To suggest God isn't a reality for reality, suggests you have some idea as to what best fits what we see around us, as well as our ability to see what is around us.
31 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidThe cosmological argument has been comprehensibly debunked. It's probably one of the weakest arguments you could put forward.
Can we explain the existence of everything with a first cause?
God is the first cause, is a supernatural thing.
Can we explain the existence of everything with no first cause?
Everything from nothing would be a supernatural thing.
Can we explain everything's existence by saying it was always here?
Everything always being here would a supernatural thing.
You are never ...[text shortened]... me idea as to what best fits what we see around us, as well as our ability to see what is around us.
31 Jan 20
2 edits
@ghost-of-a-duke saidHardly, the more that is known, it becomes more apparent that accidents could not have formed to universe and life as is. So now, there is no God of the gaps; instead the gaps are moving towards those who believe in nothing but a materialistic view of things. The explanation of a mind creating the universe and life becomes more evident, as what is known can only be explained by someone designing it all whose knowledge and power controls the cosmos and the microscopic blending it all together and holding it all there.
The cosmological argument has been comprehensibly debunked. It's probably one of the weakest arguments you could put forward.
31 Jan 20
@kellyjay saidThe fact you use words like 'accident' merely highlights you have no idea what you are talking about.
Hardly, the more that is known, it becomes more apparent that accidents could not have formed to universe and life as is. So now, there is no God of the gaps; instead the gaps are moving towards those who believe in nothing but a materialistic view of things. The explanation of a mind creating the universe and life becomes more evident, as what is known can only be explained ...[text shortened]... and power controls the cosmos and the microscopic blending it all together and holding it all there.
31 Jan 20
@ghost-of-a-duke saidUnless you can use words like design you have nothing done on purpose.
The fact you use words like 'accident' merely highlights you have no idea what you are talking about.
31 Jan 20
1 edit
@kellyjay saidOkay, a torrent of water flows down a hill and hits a wooden dam. All along the dam the water tries to get through, but is prevented from doing so by the strong wood. There is however a small hole in the damn which the water finally finds and forces its way through.
Unless you can use words like design you have nothing done on purpose.
Did the water pass through the dam by accident? Did it design its way through?
Or is there a third option?