Hebrews 1:3

'The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.'


Now, if I sent my representative to a meeting, he wouldn't 'become me.' He would only ever be my representative, a separate person in his own right. No?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.'


Now, if I sent my representative to a meeting, he wouldn't 'become me.' He would only ever be my representative, a separate person in his own right. No?

Correct, the Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son, neither of them is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit isn't either of them. God however is not like us, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, three persons one being, not three persons three beings.

@kellyjay said
Correct, the Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son, neither of them is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit isn't either of them. God however is not like us, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, three persons one being, not three persons three beings.

Do you consider this as something made very clear in the Bible and something the early Christians would have accepted?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Do you consider this as something made very clear in the Bible and something the early Christians would have accepted?

The doctrine started to be realized with the early Christians as they got to know Jesus and were introduced to the Holy Spirit. It wasn't until Jesus asked who He was to them that He started talking about laying down His life. Jesus told the demons to be quiet when they started declaring who He was, the disciples had to figure it out for themselves and grasp the truth of it, and they did. Notice that even after they started acknowledging Jesus and the Holy Spirit, there was never a time they didn't accept there was only one God.

@KellyJay

Now the Lord is the Spirit ... (2 Cor. 3:17)

Now Who is "the Lord" in Second Corinthians ?

It is the Lord Jesus -

"For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord ..." (2 Co. 4:5a)

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Cor. 1:1)

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ..." (v.3a)

The Lord [Jesus Christ] is the Spirit. That is the Holy Spirit the Third of the Triune God.

"And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom." ( 3:17)

Don't let anyone persuade you to change that to say "And the Lord [is NOT] the Spirit".

Now for the Son being the Father. The Son is called eternal Father in Isaiah 9:6.

Again, don't allow anyone to persuade you to change that to say "the Son [is NOT] called eternal Father."

"For a child is born to us, A Son is given to us;

And the government is upon His shoulder; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.'


Now, if I sent my representative to a meeting, he wouldn't 'become me.' He would only ever be my representative, a separate person in his own right. No?

I and the father are one
John 10:30

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.
John 14:9

@divegeester said
I and the father are one
John 10:30

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.
John 14:9

But if 'the Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being' wouldn't that account for him saying 'anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father'?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
But if 'the Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being' wouldn't that account for him saying 'anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father'?

Yes it would, and when combined with “I and the Father are one” we can see those two are manifestations of the one entity .

Hebrews 1:3 does say the Son of God is the effulgence of God's glory and the impress of His substance.

What else does the writer say? The writer totally identifies the Son of God with Jehovah the Creator in absolute terms in verses 8 - 12.

But of the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprighteness is the scepter of Your kingdom." (v.8)

It is clear enough that the Son is God[/b] there. But then the writer applies Psalm 102:25-27 to the Son of God !

"You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above your partner;"

And, "You in the beginning, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands;

They will perish, but You remain perpetually; and they all will become old like a garment, And like a mantle You will roll them up; like a garment they will also be changed; but You are the same, and Your years will not faith." (Hebrews 1:9-12)

To highlight how emphatically Psalm 102 is being used to apply to the Son of God as Jehovah God, I will include some portions of the Psalm.

From Psalm 102 of 28 verses.
Verse 1 - "O Jehovah, hear my prayer; And let my cry come unto You."
Verse 12 - "But You, O Jehovah, abide forever; and Your memorial is from generation to generation."
Verse 16 - "For Jehovah has built Zion; He has appeared in His glory."
Verse 19 - For He has looked down from the height of His sanctuary; From heaven Jehovah beheld the earth."
Verse 21 - "That the name of Jehovah may be declared in Zion, and His praise in Jerusalem."
Verse 22 - "When the peoples are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve Jehovah."

Now verses 24 through the end, verse 28.

"I said, My God, Do not take me away in the middle of my days;
Your years are throughout all generations.
Of old You laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish, but You endure;
Indeed all of them will wear out like a garment;

Like clothing You will change them,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years are without end.
The children of Your servants will continue.
and their seed will be established before You."

There is no possibility of arguing against that the One who is the effulgence of God's glory is also God. The writer of Hebrews chapter one understood the Son of God to be Jehovah of Psalm 102 the eternal Creator and King of Israel.

@sonship said
Hebrews 1:3 does say the Son of God is the effulgence of God's glory and the impress of His substance.

What else does the writer say? The writer totally identifies the Son of God with Jehovah the Creator in absolute terms in verses 8 - 12.

[quote] But of the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprighteness is the scepter of Your ...[text shortened]... understood the Son of God to be Jehovah of [b]Psalm 102 the eternal Creator and King of Israel.

Are there any other NT passages about Christ as Creator?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Are there any other NT passages about Christ as Creator?

I would think to include the following, though some show Christ as the agent through whom are all things created. IMO it amounts to Him being the Creator.

"Has at the last of these days spoken to us in the Son, whom He appointed Heir of all things, through whom also He made the universe." (Heb. 1:2)

" For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory, ..." (Heb. 1:10)

"All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not one thing came into being which has come into being." (John 1:3)

"Because in Him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones of lorships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and unto Him." (Col. 1:16,17)

"Yet to us there is one God, the Father, out from whom are all things, and we are unto Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we are through Him." (1 Cor. 8:6)

@sonship said
@KellyJay

Now the Lord is the Spirit ... (2 Cor. 3:17)

Now Who is "the Lord" in Second Corinthians ?

It is the Lord Jesus -

"For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord ..." (2 Co. 4:5a)

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Cor. 1:1)

"Blessed be the God and Father ...[text shortened]... alled Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6) [/quote]

Jesus didn't forsake Himself on the cross, Jesus also didn't say I cannot come to us as the Holy Spirit until He as the Son leaves. Jesus didn't send Himself as the Father, than talk to Himself saying this is my Son while appearing as the Holy Spirit in the shape of a dove. A lot of hoops have to be jumped through attempting to claim there isn't three distinct persons in God in scriptures.

In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit speaks to God who is wholly and completely in harmony. God being one is God in harmony, He isn't conflicted or divided anywhere at any time in any way. Except when Jesus became sin for us.

One eternal being God, three distinct persons in loving harmony.

@kellyjay said
A lot of hoops have to be jumped through attempting to claim there isn't three distinct persons in God in scriptures.

Not according to sonship who has claimed that “Jesus and Jehovah are the same”.

@kellyjay said
In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit speaks to God who is wholly and completely in harmony.

And what is “the name” of the Father, and of the son and of the Holy Spirit?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.'


Now, if I sent my representative to a meeting, he wouldn't 'become me.' He would only ever be my representative, a separate person in his own right. No?

Another thing about this, the exact representation of His being would mean it is precisely through and through. The universe cannot contain God, or God's glory, so this statement is quite a statement of truth in who Jesus is. God sent Jesus to our world as a man; this was new for our benefit entirely and out of God's love for us. Jesus, in terms we could understand human ones, revealed God in a way no prophets could with words or deeds.

Hebrews 1 (ESV)
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.