From the Law to Grace

Originally posted by @fmf
You have indicated that you [b]do believe it was morally sound for Jews to kill gays but you, on the other hand, do not think it was morally sound for Jews to kill gays.[/b]

You are just putting your own words in my mouth, quote me verbatim.

Originally posted by @fmf
I have answered every question of yours that I thought wasn't you just trolling.

Conveniently for you all the questions that you don't want to answer you can label as me trolling.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You are just putting your own words in my mouth, quote me verbatim.

No. People can just read what you read for themselves - verbatim - and then make what they will of my responses.

Originally posted by @fmf
Do you not realize how this has snapped the only string in your 'discourse on morality' fiddle?

You don't seem to realize that my past and my present still falls during new covenant times.

Originally posted by @fmf
No. People can just read what you read for themselves - verbatim - and then make what they will of my responses.

Read what I read... OK. 🙄

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You don't seem to realize that my past and my present still falls during new covenant times.

Morality is subjective. Yours, mine, everybody's. It is a personal code that every individual human absorbs from their environment. It varies from person to person. It can vary over time, and can be shaped by experience. These variations form an essential part of our individuality and personhood. Morals vary from culture to culture. They have changed down through history.

Originally posted by @fmf
Morality is subjective. Yours, mine, everybody's. It is a personal code that every individual human absorbs from their environment. It varies from person to person. It can vary over time, and can be shaped by experience. These variations form an essential part of our individuality and personhood. Morals vary from culture to culture. They have changed down through history.

What you are saying is true assuming God does not exist, has not created all of us and has not revealed to us how we ought to live. If you were to assume that God exists and that the Bible is in fact His revelation to us, would you still say that morality is subjective?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
What you are saying is true assuming God does not exist, has not created all of us and has not revealed to us how we ought to live. If you were to assume that God exists and that the Bible is in fact His revelation to us, would you still say that morality is subjective?

Your assumption that God exists is just an element in the formation of your subjective moral prism. As for 'assuming God exists': I don't assume God exists. You truly believe God exists and yet your morality, to me, is subjective. The same would apply to me. Here's a similar thought exercise for you: Assuming you agreed with me, would you agree with me?

Originally posted by @fmf
Your assumption that God exists is just an element in the formation of your subjective moral prism. As for 'assuming God exists': I don't assume God exists. You truly believe God exists and yet your morality, to me, is subjective. The same would apply me. Here's a similar thought exercise for you: Assuming you agreed with me, would you agree with me?

When you were a Christian, did you believe morality was subjective? Yes or No?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
When you were a Christian, did you believe morality was subjective? Yes or No?

I post here as a non-believer. I am interested in exchanging my existing views about spiritual matters with those I may have different perspectives from. I don't think having a superstitious framework for one's belief system renders it "objective". I have explained why.

Originally posted by @fmf
I post here as a non-believer. I am interested in exchanging my existing views about spiritual matters with those I may have different perspectives from. I don't think having a superstitious framework for one's belief system renders it "objective". I have explained why.

Your dodge is noted yet again. When you were a Christian, did you believe morality was subjective? Yes or No?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You don't seem to realize that my past and my present still falls during new covenant times.

Moral codes vary, geographically and historically. That you try to package this with religious doctrine about "old" and "new covenants" does not alter the fact that your moral code is subjective, personal, and subject to your environment - including your interest in the Bible.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Your dodge is noted yet again. When you were a Christian, did you believe morality was subjective? Yes or No?

I have already given you my response to this request. If you want to probe my current beliefs as a non-believer, be my guest.

Originally posted by @fmf
Moral codes vary, geographically and historically. That you try to package this with religious doctrine about "old" and "new covenants" does not alter the fact that your moral code is subjective, personal, and subject to your environment - including your interest in the Bible.

If what you are saying is true it means that it is impossible to tell whether or not the stoning of gays is objectively wrong at this point in time. Correct?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If what you are saying is true it means that it is impossible to tell whether or not the stoning of gays is objectively wrong at this point in time. Correct?

There is no "objectively wrong". We agree that stoning gays was immoral. To that extent our subjective moral compasses coincide.