@indonesia-phil saidYou begin by saying that there is no God, that too colors everything going forward. The thing you seem to forget is you also have biases and as soon as someone steps out of line with yours you cry foul!
Loads of stuff to try to unpick here, and unlike you I will try to answer. You begin all thoughts with the assumption that there is a god, I don't; why should I think there is any god to 'reject'? What exactly do you think I'm trying to 'prove' by 'using the universe'? I'm not trying to prove the non - existence of god, (if that's what you mean) why should I bother, if ...[text shortened]... n that there is a god. Nature is complex, and wonderful, so what? Your last sentence makes no sense.
I remind you how you treated Dr Tour, a world class scientist with honors, papers, patents who is a professor at a college, you did not go after his talk, or science, you belittled the man because of his faith. Ignoring everything just to focus on the fact his worldview is not yours, you just scoffed and rejected him on just that basis alone. You don’t think about the topics, you look for those who hold your worldview, and belittle the rest.
You have added nothing but contempt to the discussions. You have never defended a position except to say that it doesn’t line up with yours. I would say it no small wonder you don’t know what is meant from time to time, since you never take the time to understand the arguments.
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@kellyjay saidWhat do you make of the hundreds of thousands of those "world class scientists with honors, papers, patents who [are] professors at colleges" who do not share your view? Does your "Dr Tour" supersede and negate them all?
I remind you how you treated Dr Tour, a world class scientist with honors, papers, patents who is a professor at a college, you did not go after his talk, or science, you belittled the man because of his faith.
To help readers who are already wary of KellyJay’s habit of slipping in unreferenced unexplained videos in a sort of intellectually lazy backhanded way of saying “gotcha” … this one takes 11 minutes of some slightly smug person talking a bit like Angus Deayton to point out that AI has shown that there isn’t enough time since the beginning of the universe for an undisclosed number of monkey to type a Shakespeare sonnet, or something like that.
Of course “Angus” fails to mention that the monkey allegory is indeed just an allegory made by someone a long time ago who was themselves to lazy to bother to explain what actual universal chance happening was.
Anyway hope that helps.
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@kellyjay saidI don't 'begin by saying there is no god', I 'begin' with an open mind; you simply can't grasp the idea that anyone could see the world where a god isn't the first thing they think about. In what way have I cried foul? What I and others have done here is to ask a Christian (any Christian) to address the blatant contradictions in the Christian faith, and how that faith can be reconciled with over two thousand years of scientific research and discovery, (I give you the age of the earth as an example) and so far all such questions have been ignored.
You begin by saying that there is no God, that too colors everything going forward. The thing you seem to forget is you also have biases and as soon as someone steps out of line with yours you cry foul!
I remind you how you treated Dr Tour, a world class scientist with honors, papers, patents who is a professor at a college, you did not go after his talk, or science, you ...[text shortened]... n’t know what is meant from time to time, since you never take the time to understand the arguments.
And as for Doctor Tour, if we really have to do this again, I'm sure Doctor Tour has done some clever science, but to then attribute everything (or anything) to a divine, mythical entity isn't very scientific, is it? My position on that hasn't changed and nor will it; science is about proof, and there is no proof of any god.
If you think I've added 'nothing but contempt' to the discussions then why are you still discussing with me? If you interpret my (and others) asking difficult questions about religion as 'contempt' then why not try answering some of them? As for not knowing what is meant, I understand the arguments perfectly well, as long as they are written in a way which can be understood, but since you raise the matter, your grammar and sentence formation varies wildly between relative eloquence (as in the post I'm replying to) and the incomprehensible. I'm not the only one who has pointed this out, so it isn't me. You may know what you're trying to say, but the art of communication is making that clear to those with whom you are trying to communicate.
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@divegeester saidI admire your tenacity in actually watching an unsolicited YouTube video. That’s 11 minutes I can spend doing something useful, such as evacuating my bowels.
To help readers who are already wary of KellyJay’s habit of slipping in unreferenced unexplained videos in a sort of intellectually lazy backhanded way of saying “gotcha” … this one takes 11 minutes of some slightly smug person talking a bit like Angus Deayton to point out that AI has shown that there isn’t enough time since the beginning of the universe for an undisclose ...[text shortened]... to lazy to bother to explain what actual universal chance happening was.
Anyway hope that helps.
😆
120d
@kellyjay saidEvolution Q & A: if you understood anything at all about evolution, or Darwin as a man, you'd know that evolution does not begin by saying there is no God. Darwin only very late in his life came to the conclusion that his thesis was incompatible with a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis (which is still not the same thing as saying there is no God). What evolution implies is not that there is no God; what evolution implies is that God is not necessary as an explanatory principle (in speciation). Many people believe in God, and that evolution really happened; that is in fact the position the Vatican takes. You're the one who struggles with this because you cling to a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis, and because you lack understanding what the theory of evolution actually claims and how the various parts of it (natural selection, genetic mutation, and so on) actually work.
You begin by saying that there is no God, that too colors everything going forward. The thing you seem to forget is you also have biases and as soon as someone steps out of line with yours you cry foul!
I remind you how you treated Dr Tour, a world class scientist with honors, papers, patents who is a professor at a college, you did not go after his talk, or science, you ...[text shortened]... n’t know what is meant from time to time, since you never take the time to understand the arguments.
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120d
@moonbus saidIt takes you that long? Try taking a laxative once in a while, it opens up the lower bowels for a smoother and faster evacuation.
I admire your tenacity in actually watching an unsolicited YouTube video. That’s 11 minutes I can spend doing something useful, such as evacuating my bowels.
😆
120d
@pettytalk saidPatience is a virtue devoutly to be cultivated.
It takes you that long? Try taking a laxative once in a while, it opens up the lower bowels for a smoother and faster evacuation.
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- 4156
120d
@moonbus saidYou mean to say that the Vatican is taking a position that Adam and Eve were two monkeys to begin with? I think they are finally getting it in Rome. Without eating (gaining) knowledge of what is good and what is evil, we are no better than apes. Animals act instinctively, and to them, there is no good or evil behavior. That's also why, before the symbolic taking of the forbidden fruit, they felt no shame in being naked, just like all other animals.
Evolution Q & A: if you understood anything at all about evolution, or Darwin as a man, you'd know that evolution does not begin by saying there is no God. Darwin only very late in his life came to the conclusion that his thesis was incompatible with a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis (which is still not the same thing as saying there is no God). What evol ...[text shortened]... aims and how the various parts of it (natural selection, genetic mutation, and so on) actually work.
The Vatican is trying to keep their pockets full and will embrace whatever it takes. They are also in the 'star gazing' business, having several observatories around the world that are part of the Vatican Observatory Group, which is an international network of observatories dedicated to the study of the cosmos.
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@pettytalk saidAnd now the thread is officially in the sh|tter.
It all depends where patience rests. For the sake of patience, hopefully you defecate only once per day, otherwise you have too much patience to cultivate.
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@pettytalk saidThe Vatican grudgingly accepted that they were making themselves look foolish by continuing to deny or resist the massively coherent evidence which supports the theory of evolution, and they probably thought it would be a smart move to respond sooner than the 350 or so years it took them re-habilitate Galileo for saying the Earth moves.
You mean to say that the Vatican is taking a position that Adam and Eve were two monkeys to begin with? I think they are finally getting it in Rome. Without eating (gaining) knowledge of what is good and what is evil, we are no better than apes. Animals act instinctively, and to them, there is no good or evil behavior. That's also why, before the symbolic taking of the forb ...[text shortened]... tory Group, which is an international network of observatories dedicated to the study of the cosmos.
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@moonbus saidDarwin is not who I am talking to, I have had a few conversations with you and a few others here, and I have been informed numerous times about the status of God. You have said so many times I have lost count of what is not going on inside biological systems such as level-setting and just recently you have backtracked on the levels, but you have maintained that is not evidence for God, or do you deny that?
Evolution Q & A: if you understood anything at all about evolution, or Darwin as a man, you'd know that evolution does not begin by saying there is no God. Darwin only very late in his life came to the conclusion that his thesis was incompatible with a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis (which is still not the same thing as saying there is no God). What evol ...[text shortened]... aims and how the various parts of it (natural selection, genetic mutation, and so on) actually work.
You have never seen me use the Book of Genesis as any part of my discussions on evolution, suggesting otherwise is less than honest. I've brought up more than a few concerns with specifics concerning some evolutionary processes, those get ignored, but like you are doing now religion gets brought up as if that alone is enough to ignore issues with evolution. It seems to me if it were not for your worldview confirmation requirements, you would have nothing to say, you avoid specifics except maybe to just deny without explanation as to why you are denying what was brought up.