Originally posted by @whodeyNo, I’m addressing your false dilemma whodey. Stop attributing things to me when I’m addressing your woolly thinking. If you put up a false dilemma and it was, then I’m going to question its veracity as supporting claims of evidence.
And in the movie their actions and teachings are studied to assess them on a psychologically.
Do you think they were deluded? Was Paul based on what he taught and the way he lived his life?
Originally posted by @divegeesterBumped from bottom of page.
Read Acts and see how they evangelised. There was no “evidence” required, the spirit of God moved with power through the spoken word. Thousands were converted on the spot.
Edit: just because I’m contesting what is or isn’t evidence, doesn’t mean I don’t believe.
Originally posted by @divegeesterBut my faith did not occur in a vacuum. It is not fair to compare it to the flying spaghetti monster. It came from other witnesses to the truth.
No, (sigh), I’m saying you were already a believer and didn’t need evidence. Like me.
Originally posted by @divegeesterShould we not judge the disciples based upon their teaching and example as to whether they were deluded?
No, I’m addressing your false dilemma whodey. Stop attributing things to me when I’m addressing your woolly thinking. If you put up a false dilemma and it was, then I’m going to question its veracity as supporting claims of evidence.
Was Gandhi deluded? He was willing to give his life for his cause as well.
Originally posted by @fmfNot everyone agrees with the truth. It is interesting that Christ not only did not convince everyone of the truth, most seemed to reject it.
Were the people who created new literature for the post-Judaism breakaway religion unaware of Isaiah 53?
Do you think Christ was deluded FMF or were the people deluded who rejected his message?
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Originally posted by @fmfYou have evidence or not? Or is hearsay good enough for you when it suits you?
The point about gospels being discarded [you dont think any were?] in accordance with a prevailing doctrine pertains to whodey's vaulted uniformity.
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Originally posted by @divegeesterDid you even bother to open the link I posted? The book is called "New evidence that demands a verdict". It is written by Josh McDowell. Look into his testimony it is very interesting to say the least.
yes, but why don't you post some of your signs, indications or whatever else you have and see how it goes?
Originally posted by @dj2beckerWhat hearsay?
You have evidence or not? Or is hearsay good enough for you when it suits you?
Originally posted by @whodeyI'll ask you again because it was you, not me who brought up Isaiah 53 and you have sidestepped my question about it. Were the people who created new literature for the post-Judaism breakaway religion unaware of Isaiah 53?
Not everyone agrees with the truth. It is interesting that Christ not only did not convince everyone of the truth, most seemed to reject it.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerI am not concerned with whether or not you know anything about gospels being discarded and the resulting homogeneity of the four that were included in the canon.
You have evidence or not?
You recently demonstrated that you did not know that Jesus was a key figure in Islam and that he was seen as a fake and an imposter by Judaism and still is ~ they didn't even adopt him as a prophet. Your upbringing truncated your inquisitiveness, it would seem.
These gaps are not my responsibility. You can look into the subject of gospels making and not making it into the canon yourself if you're interested.
And anyway, you believe that the process was divinely inspired and that the result was therefore correct, which is your prerogative. I have no need to divest you of this view.
From my point of view, however, the homogeneity I mentioned is not much of a surprise. Nor does it add to the persuasiveness of their content as whodey seems to think it does.
Daniel 9:24-27 is another example of evidence in scripture that Jesus was the Messiah.
Here we have a historical document dated 500 years before Jesus, and in this document we find a calendar for the coming of the Messiah.
Although modern Jews often say that it is not a calendar for the coming of the Messiah, it is well documented that Jews of old thought that it was. In fact, many in the Qumran community that created the Dead Sea Scrolls believed that they were living in the time of the Messiah based upon the prophesy because the calendar was calculated to point to the time of Jesus.
We also have commentary in the Talmud regarding the prophesy. Rabbi Judah, the main compiler of the Talmud, said, "These times were over long ago" (Babylonia Talmud Sanhedrin 98b and 97a.
Then in the 12th century AD Rabbi Moses Ben Maimon, one of the most respected rabbis in history, said, "Daniel has elucidated to us the knowledge of the end of times. However, since they are secret, the wise rabbis have barred the calculation of the days of the Messiah's coming so that they untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that the End Times have already come but there is not sign of the Messiah." (Igeret Teiman, Chapter 3 p.24).
Lastly, there is Rabbi Moses Abraham Levi who said, "I have examined and searched all the Holy Scriptures and have not found the time for the coming of the Messiah clearly fixed, except in the words of Gabriel to the prophet Daniel, which are written in the 9th chapter of the prophesy of Daniel" (The Messiah of the Targums, Talmuds and Rabbinical Writers, 1971}
Having said all that, what are the possibilities here? If you don't believe the veracity of the gospels, you must assume that believers made up the gospels to match the calendar shown in Daniel.
Is this likely?
Originally posted by @whodeyWere the people who created new literature for the post-Judaism breakaway religion unaware of Daniel 9:24-27?
Daniel 9:24-27 is another example of evidence in scripture that Jesus was the Messiah.
Here we have a historical document dated 500 years before Jesus, and in this document we find a calendar for the coming of the Messiah.