Eternal One

Originally posted by @sonship
Its a good question and [b]Acts 17:25 certainly is a verse in your favor.

"Neither is He served by human hands as though He needed anything in addition, since He Himself gives to all life and breath and all things." (Acts 17;25)

Let me ask you this.
Do you believe in the omnipresence of God ?
I mean God is everywhere. Do you believe this ?[/b]

Okay, let me proceed without comments.

Omnipresence is the word to describe that God is present everywhere.
But God being everywhere does not negate that Christ needs to make His home in our hearts.

" That He would grant you to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man,

That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith ..." (Eph. 3:16,17)

Yes, because of God's omnipresence He is everywhere (Psalm :139:7-9)

"WHERE ... shall I go, away from Your presence ? If I ascend into heaven, YOU ARE THERE. If I make my bed in Sheol, THERE YOU ARE.

If I take the wings of the dawn and settle at the limits of the sea, There also You hand will lead me, and your right hand will take hold of me."

So God is everywhere.

But in His economy, in His operation of coming INTO man, God in Christ needs to make His home in our hearts. He is not already there if He wants to make His home there.

God who is everywhere needing to COME INTO man is similar to God Who needs nothing, needing to make His home in our hearts through faith.

Originally posted by @sonship
Okay, let me proceed without comments.

Omnipresence is the word to describe that God is present [b]everywhere.
But God being everywhere does not negate that Christ needs to make His home in our hearts.

[quote] " That He would grant you to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man,

That Christ may make His home ...[text shortened]... man is similar to God Who needs nothing, needing to make His home in our hearts through faith.

I think you are really reaching here, seriously, God needs man for anything? God, who is
everywhere, the whole universe cannot contain Him. God, who knows everything, so the
smallest particles in every location, all at once, are not mysteries to Him, He sees them all
at once, and how they all relate to the rest of the universe! God, who is all powerful, where
if He desired nothing could resist Him, or stop Him from acting towards anyone else. God
who is the beginning and the end, He not only eternal in space, but time He sees all things
now, but all things that were, are, and will be. God, who created everything that is not
God needs something? Really, I think not!

This should also tell us all that there is nothing we can bring to God that will impress Him!
There is nothing that we can do to make Him act in any way He doesn't want to.
There is no amount of anything we can bring or offer that God needs or requires.

So bottom line here, we go to God on His terms not ours, we accept His gift of grace not
because He needs us, but because He loves us, and wants us. It will be on God's terms
not ours, it will be because of what God did for us to make us righteous not because we
are so impressively righteous on our own.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I think you are really reaching here, seriously, God needs man for anything? God, who is
everywhere, the whole universe cannot contain Him. God, who knows everything, so the
smallest particles in every location, all at once, are not mysteries to Him, He sees them all
at once, and how they all relate to the rest of the universe! God, who is all powerful, ...[text shortened]... at God did for us to make us righteous not because we
are so impressively righteous on our own.

I think you are really reaching here, seriously, God needs man for anything? God, who is everywhere, the whole universe cannot contain Him.

There are two great works of God - God's creating and God's building.

For God's creating nothing physical gives Him any trouble.
He does as He will.

For the building work of God He is dealing with living being with its own agenda and can give God some problems.

This passage in Isaiah 66 nicely reveals both aspects of this - God's work of creation and God's work of building Himself into man and man into Himself.

"Thus says Jehovah, Heaven is my throne, and the earth is a footstool for My feet, Where then is the house that you will build for Me,
And where is the place of My rest? For all these things My hand has made, And all these things have come into being, declares Jehovah." (Isaiah 66:1,2a)

Heaven and earth are His. The cattle on a thousand hills are His.
All creation is His and He needs nothing for His rest or His dwelling place. Right ?
Right.

But then we go on.

"And so all these things have come into being, declares Jehovah,

But to this kind of man will I look, to him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word." (vs.2)

When God the Creator says that to this kind of man will He look, He means He will look for a dwelling place and a rest. The created heaven is His throne and the planet earth is His footstool. Where could man possibly come up with a HOUSE for God to live in ??
All these things are creations from His hand.

But He WILL LOOK, for a dwelling place, at a certain kind of humanity.

"But to this kind of man will I look ..."

This highlights God's eternal purpose to build Himself into human beings for a dwelling place. He starts with the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the God-man.

God created all things. But in His eternal purpose He desires to dispense Himself into man. He is everywhere in omnipresence. Yet He looks to finally rest and dwell in a relationship of mutual incorporation in man.

Originally posted by @sonship

I think you are really reaching here, seriously, God needs man for anything? God, who is everywhere, the whole universe cannot contain Him.

There are two great works of God - God's creating and God's building.

For God's creating nothing physical gives Him any trouble.
He does as He will.

For the building work of God He is dealin ...[text shortened]... sence. Yet He looks to finally rest and dwell in a relationship of mutual incorporation in man.

I think you elevate us to much. God doing a work doesn't mean because He has a need.
Your view in my opinion makes man out to be to much, and you turn God into a god.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I think you elevate us to much. God doing a work doesn't mean because He has a need.
Your view in my opinion makes man out to be to much, and you turn God into a god.

I think you elevate us to much. God doing a work doesn't mean because He has a need. Your view in my opinion makes man out to be to much, and you turn God into a god.

I elevate us too much?
Now God became a man - Jesus Christ.


Don't you think that says something about humanity's worth to God ?

The passage I referred to says God is looking not to heaven for a house but to a certain kind of man. Fast forward to Ephesians, a book on God's eternal purpose, you have Him BUILDING a living entity of God and man known as the church - "a dwelling place [or habitation] of God in spirit."

" Being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone;

In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord.

In whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:20-22)

You should see some connect between this and Isaiah 66:1,2.
God is everywhere. But a unique creature - man, is to be His habitation, His living dwelling place, His house. God needs to dispense Himself into man.

If you have been born again, this is much more than just a "ticket" reading "Admit One". This is the beginning of the Triune God dispensing Himself into you for the building of His habitation, His house.

I learned all this mostly from Witness Lee. And I got completely convinced.
I would recommend "The Vision of God's Building" by Witness Lee for your reading.

Just look at the chapter headings.

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=1FFC0C

But if not, I am happy to discuss this with you regardless. We have the word of God to verify these things.

Excerpt from the Preface of the book The Vision of God's Building
Messages given in Los Angeles in 1964.

PREFACE

To fulfill His eternal purpose God must accomplish two categories of work: the work of creation and the work of building. Scripture opens with God’s creation and finishes with His building. God’s creation is for His building, and God’s building is the ultimate consummation which fulfills His purpose in creation. The principal means for accomplishing God’s creation is His divine power. But the main element utilized for God’s building is the divine life. We were born into God’s creation, but we are reborn for God’s building, which is the church, the ultimate consummation of which is the New Jerusalem. This building is of life, by life, and with life. Regeneration in life is the beginning, growth in life is the continuation, and maturity in life is the consummation of life for this building of God. Eventually, in the New Jerusalem, God’s ultimate building, there is a river of life flowing for those who participate in God’s building to drink, and the tree of life growing in the river of life for them to eat. These signify that the building of God is produced, nourished and sustained by God Himself and with God Himself in Christ as life to us. Hence, for us to partake of God’s building, there is no other way but by life and with life.

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=1FFC0C

Originally posted by @sonship
Don't you think that says something about humanity's worth to God ?

What does torturing billions and billions of them for eternity for a lack of belief say about humanity's worth to your god figure?

Originally posted by @fmf
What does torturing billions and billions of them for eternity for a lack of belief say about humanity's worth to your god figure?

Who said they are

1.tortured?
2. for eternity?
3. for a lack of belief?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Who said they are

1.tortured?
2. for eternity?
3. for a lack of belief?

sonship.

Originally posted by @fmf
sonship.

And most of the other other Christians in this forum.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Who said they are

1.tortured?
2. for eternity?
3. for a lack of belief?

Not Suzianne, not checkbaiter (if I recall correctly), Rajk999, divegeester, not any of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Pudgenik (I think, not 100% sure), CalJust, and there are two [josephw and lemon lime] who didn't but - as far as I was able to make out - they changed their stated beliefs about torture specifically in order to be different from divegeester [they can chip in and set me straight on this if I have got it wrong]. And there have been others.

Originally posted by @fmf
Not Suzianne, not checkbaiter (if I recall correctly), Rajk999, divegeester, not any of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Pudgenik (I think, not 100% sure), CalJust, and there are two [josephw and lemon lime] who didn't but - as far as I was able to make out - they changed their stated beliefs about torture specifically in order to be different from divegeester [they can chip in and set me straight on this if I have got it wrong]. And there have been others.

And they all said the only criterion for these consequences is a lack of belief?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
And they all said the only criterion for these consequences is a lack of belief?

"All" who? Suzianne et al? Why can't you read what I post?

Originally posted by @fmf
"All" who? Suzianne et al? Why can't you read what I post?

Those that said all 3 the things you claimed they did, Johnny.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Those that said all 3 the things you claimed they did, Johnny.

My question was to sonship. Who are the "those" and the "they" you are referring to? Just read what I post and have a think rather than blurt stuff out.