Spirituality
09 Sep 17
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Did Daniel just say to himself - "Hmmm. This captivity will last 70 years. God has nothing that He needs. When the time is UP ... why then God will cause His people to return to the Holy Land and rebuild the temple, the city, and its wall."
No, Daniel, at the cost of his very life, opened his windows towards Jerusalem and from Babylon prayed earnestly daily. He sense the NEED of God for man to pray for God to fulfill His word. [EDITED]
Why didn't Daniel just say "Well, God needs nothing. He just loves us. And when the timetable is UP, why then God will keep His promise" ? At the risk of his life he prayed three times a day. Even when his enemies conspired to trap him and have him eaten by lions, Daniel faithfully prayed for God to perform His promised deed.
You all should know something about Daniel in the lions' den. Daniel risked his life to harmonize and cooperate with God's plan. He had to have sensed that God had a need. He didn't say - "Well, if I continue to pray to anyone besides the king I will be thrown into the lions' den. Why risk my life. God doesn't NEED my petitions and my prayers and my supplications."
God needed a faithful and godly man to stand in the gap and petition that God DO what He had promised.
15 Sep 17
Originally posted by @sonshipWe can disagree no big deal , if you need/want to present another point feel free. If I feel like I have nothing new to add, I won't.
KellyJay, it is not yet a bother to me.
We disagree maybe. But I feel to present this aspect of the matter.
I you wish I will not address it to you personally.
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15 Sep 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayMaybe the gentlemanly thing to do is for me to start another thread from your Eternal One.
We can disagree no big deal , if you need/want to present another point feel free. If I feel like I have nothing new to add, I won't.
The eternality of God is truly, truly awesome.
Originally posted by @sonshipYou are in error again sonship.
KellyJay, it is not yet a bother to me.
We disagree maybe. But I feel to present this aspect of the matter.
I you wish I will not address it to you personally.
There is no evidence in the bible that God "needs" us.
I really do not understand why you plant these erroneous trees and then spend so much effort barking up them .
Originally posted by @divegeester to divegeesterPerhaps it is sonship providing "leadership". Perhaps he wants - in this case - KellyJay to follow him.
I really do not understand why you plant these erroneous trees and then spend so much effort barking up them .
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16 Sep 17
3 edits
Originally posted by @divegeesterYou are in error again sonship.
You are in error again sonship.
There is no evidence in the bible that God "needs" us.
I really do not understand why you plant these erroneous trees and then spend so much effort barking up them .
There is no evidence in the bible that God "needs" us.
I really do not understand why you plant these erroneous trees and then spend so much effort barking up them .
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I'm sure KellyJay would not mind you sitting in for him on this one a little.
The Bible is not always so simple. Now the Gospels tell us that the Word which was God became flesh (John 1:1,14) . This is the incarnation of God as man.
Now in the Gospel of John, Jesus was thirsty and in need of a drink of water.
Therefore a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her, Give Me something to drink.
The Samaritan woman then said to Him, How is it that You, being a Jew, ask for a drink from me, who am a Samaritan woman ? (For the Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) (John 4:7,9)
Did God need something from the Samaritan woman ?
17 Sep 17
3 edits
Originally posted by @sonshipJesus became a man, He lived His whole life as a man, There were no times He would flip a switch to become God for a moment then revet back to His human nature.
[b] You are in error again sonship.
There is no evidence in the bible that God "needs" us.
I really do not understand why you plant these erroneous trees and then spend so much effort barking up them .
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I'm sure KellyJay would not mind you sitti ...[text shortened]... ith Samaritans.) (John 4:7,9) [/b] [/quote]
Did God need something from the Samaritan woman ?[/b]
He was tempted in all points like us, we can never put on and off Godhood to solve a problem. So in every way Jesus became the Son of Man.
You will notice He said we would do greater works than He was doing, and those filled with God's Spirit did, and do.
If you are going to use Jesus time here, you should see that time of limitations was there by design. Design to save us and show us God in human terms we could understand as He walked with us as one of us in every way.
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17 Sep 17
4 edits
Originally posted by @kellyjay
Jesus became a man, He lived His whole life as a man, There were no times He would flip a switch to become God for a moment then revet back to His human nature.
The Word was with God (John 1:1)
God was the Word. (John 1:1)
The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (John 1:14).
During the conversation with the Samaritan woman this Wonderful Person needed a drink from the woman.
You are not saying that at that time the Word was not God, are you ?
He was tempted in all points like us, we can never put on and off Godhood to solve a problem. So in every way Jesus became the Son of Man.
The question is whether God had need.
The incarnation has God Himself put Himself into a position in which He had a need.
The thirsty Son of Man at the well was also the Word Who was with God and was God, Who became flesh (John 1:1,14).
No doubt that the Word was in the form of having become flesh, and in all respects like us yet without sin. But at that time was it still true that - "and the Word was with God" and "and the Word was God".
The Word by becoming flesh to tabernacle among us, Himself placed Himself in a condition of needing as a typical man would need to drink water.
I think this is true unless you believe that the Word was no longer God for that time in John 4 by the Jacob's well in Sychar.
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17 Sep 17
2 edits
You will notice He said we would do greater works than He was doing, and those filled with God's Spirit did, and do.
Here I think the "greater works" are works "great" in the eyes of the Triune God.
We have to think about what would be "great" to the estimation of Christ and God.
The building of His church is part of the greater works. For in Christ building His church Christ is enlarged, expanded, and dispensed into man for a corporate expression.
The building up of the church is both done by Christ -
" ... and I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:18)
However the saints themselves, in cooperation with the Triune God and in coordination with Christ ALSO build up this corporate entity.
"But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ, Out from whom all the Body, being joined together and being knit together through every joint of the rich supply and through the operation in the measure of each one part,
causes the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love." (Eph. 4:15,16)
By allowing Christ to grow in us the local church particupates in the building up of His church. He builds and we the saints growing and supplying the Body with life CAUSE the building up of the Body the church in love. She build up herself in love.
This is great in the eyes of God. And I think the "greater works" cannot possibly exclude the building up of His church the Body of Christ in love.
This also reveals God's need for the cooperation of those human beings who allow Christ to grow in them, knit t hem together, and be joints of supply, the rich supply that the church may build up herself in love.
By this you may briefly see the distinction between God's work of creation in which He had no need and building in which God needs man's cooperation.
But back to the Word Who was God having need.
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17 Sep 17
5 edits
If you are going to use Jesus time here, you should see that time of limitations was there by design.
I don't doubt that for a moment.
But unless you want to say that the Word was not God at that time, it is hard to get away from realizing that incarnation necessarily calls for God to be in the form of a man and having need.
God put Himself into that position voluntarily.
In the working out of His economy God needs His redeemed people's cooperation.
Design to save us and show us God in human terms we could understand as He walked with us as one of us in every way.
God was indeed in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
God in Christ after His resurrection yearned that Peter would remember to feed His sheep. Three times He asked the former backslider Peter - "Do you love Me". See (John 20:15-17) . He asked one time for each of Peter's denials.
If you touch the spirit and the heart of Jesus in these verses you will see that Jesus was saying to this leader among His disciples in essence - If you really love Me, you will take care of My need. I need You to feed My sheep, to shepherd My lamb, to feed My sheep.
"He said to him the third time, Simon, son of John, do you love Me ? Peter was grieved that He said the third time Do you love Me? And he said to Him, Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.
Jesus said to him, Feed My sheep." (John 20:17)
Can't you touch the need of God in Christ for the cooperation of His redeemed ones? If we love Him, PLEASE, He commands, see to the feeding of His sheep. Feed them with Christ.
Isn't this part of the greater works that Jesus predicted that His followers would do?
It is greater in the eyes of Jesus Christ. And He is God incarnate.
17 Sep 17
Originally posted by @sonshipThis is a truly pathetic argument.
[b] You are in error again sonship.
There is no evidence in the bible that God "needs" us.
I really do not understand why you plant these erroneous trees and then spend so much effort barking up them .
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I'm sure KellyJay would not mind you sitti ...[text shortened]... ith Samaritans.) (John 4:7,9) [/b] [/quote]
Did God need something from the Samaritan woman ?[/b]
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17 Sep 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @divegeesterYou did the easy part. You asserted.
This is a truly pathetic argument.
Now to the harder part - proving it.
I don't expect you to go into that task, based on past encounters.
In fact, I don't think you answered my question to you about Jesus as the well in John 4. Do you feel more comfortable just letting KellyJay submit his answer as yours ?