03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI am asking for examples. Have a go at the various 'stakeholders' in the southern border issue. What dehumanization do you see there [in terms of morality and empathy]?
How is it too vague to comment on? Why does it need to be more narrow?
What did you have in mind?
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidThat wasn't a concrete example.
I refer you back to this statement:
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/empathy-and-morality.186411/page-6#post_4248665
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI've asked you to give your take on it to illustrate what you believe dehumanization is.
You can explain that and the Southern border crisis if you like.
03 Aug 20
How do you think concrete examples would help you understand the idea?
I think the idea is really clear.
Carl Schmitt didn't feel the need for concrete examples, and I understood the idea well enough.
Why do you need them?
I fear that you would only be sucked into them, and be drawn away from the idea.
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidYou insisted that "the first person who invokes humanity & humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else". But you also believe that the first person who opposes or rejects those who invoke humanity and humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else, right? Why did you mention only the first one and then have to be pressed on expressing the second one?But, if it turns out that you ALSO believe that people who oppose those who invoke humanitarianism are prone to dehumanizing them, then why didn't you say so alongside the supposed dehumanization that you DID mention?
Like, where was that going? IDK.
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI don't care if you think Carl Schmitt is one of the "important men". Nor do I care if you would characterize yourself one of the "nobodies on the internet".
The reason that quotations are used is because it is inherently educational to be exposed to great minds and important thinkers. No one really cares what FMF or Philokalia says in a forum, so what is the use of trying to keep track of what these nobodies on the internet think?
I think it is useful to quote important men and will continue to do so.
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidBecause your idea is coming across as a kind of scatter-pattern misanthropic propaganda aimed at people whose humanitarianism-oriented moral compasses you dislike or disapprove of. That is how your idea is coming across. Concrete examples might clear this up.
How do you think concrete examples would help you understand the idea?
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidBecause you are here propagating something that seems to be snide and rather akin to poisoning the well, and you seem to have no examples to back up your assertions because ~ apparently ~ Carl Schmitt didn't give you any.
Carl Schmitt didn't feel the need for concrete examples, and I understood the idea well enough.
Why do you need them?
03 Aug 20
@fmf saidI do not know what you are trying to say, FMF.
You insisted that "the first person who invokes humanity & humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else". But you also believe that the first person who opposes or rejects those who invoke humanity and humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else, right? Why did you mention only the first one and then have to be pressed on expressing the second one?
Why did I mention only the first person? Why did I stop in the long line of potentialities?
What's your point?
03 Aug 20
@fmf saidHow am I poisoning the well?
Because you are here propagating something that seems to be snide and rather akin to poisoning the well, and you seem to have no examples to back up your assertions because ~ apparently ~ Carl Schmitt didn't give you any.
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidWhy didn't you also assert that 'the first person who opposes or rejects those who invoke humanity and humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else'?
Why did I mention only the first person? Why did I stop in the long line of potentialities?
It's what you believe, right?
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidYour sneering and wishy-washy accusations about people who are oriented towards humanitarianism are being kept deliberately vague through a steadfast refusal to illustrate what you mean through concrete examples.
How am I poisoning the well?
03 Aug 20
@fmf saidOh, it's a shame if I come off that way to you.
Because your idea is coming across as a kind of scatter-pattern misanthropic propaganda aimed at people whose humanitarianism-oriented moral compasses you dislike or disapprove of. That is how your idea is coming across. Concrete examples might clear this up.
I actually am avoiding givign examples by design for two reasons
- I think you would actually derail discussion about the general idea through examples
- I think everyone can think of some examples, and it would be more interesting to work through those examples that people felt were pertinent and perhaps even come to conclusions about whether or not it applies.
- It would be more interesting to discuss the merits of the model and see some counter-models
That' smy idea about this and why I am avoiding it. ^^
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidIs this a Carl Schmitt thing you are parrotting here?
The first person who invokes humanity & humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else.
@philokalia saidI think you are worried that the examples you would give would portray you as a partisan misanthrope who likes to keep his disdain for people oriented towards humanitarianism vague and plausibly deniable when necessary.
I think everyone can think of some examples, and it would be more interesting to work through those examples that people felt were pertinent and perhaps even come to conclusions about whether or not it applies.