Creation is evidence for which God?

@darfius said
This has nothing to do with anything I've said, is dishonest and is not a claim supported with any evidence. On Judgement Day, you will no longer be able to lie without being immediately exposed and culpable. Repent.

Belief in supernatural causality - like yours - is a sort of blend of intricate interwoven perceptions, opinions and assumptions, "gut feelings" ...instinct and intuition... and highly personal things like aspiration and emotion and identity and belonging.

Religious people take this blend of psychological stuff and rationalize it and even intellectualize it by reference to the doctrines that they have memorized and internalized. It's well and truly in the realm of circular reasoning.

This concocts a subjective version of "rationality" that is shared by only those within the group that experiences and adheres to the same faith, and it is not a form of "rationality" that people outside the group - or who belong to competing groups - can subscribe to.

Every single use you make of the word "logic" in your attempt to set your religious beliefs apart from - and more valid than - the beliefs of others, is just you being pretty much as subjective as you can possibly be.

@darfius said
Two infinite beings cannot coexist because the infinity of one would be a limitation of the other.

Logic dictates what we "can believe", though perhaps you'd define logic as "supernatural" and ignore it. Those of us intelligent enough to understand logic understand these things. 😉

This has nothing to do with logic, you are playing games with words. On a graph the x-axis is infinite as is the y-axis, neither constrains the other. So I have a counterexample and your claim is refuted.

@deepthought said
This has nothing to do with logic, you are playing games with words. On a graph the x-axis is infinite as is the y-axis, neither constrains the other. So I have a counterexample and your claim is refuted.

But mathematical infinites have everything to do with logic, right? haha. Do the x and y axes intersect anywhere? By the way, I don't agree that I played any games with words. That was just an assertion on your part and you did not disprove my claim.

@darfius said
But mathematical infinites have everything to do with logic, right? haha. Do the x and y axes intersect anywhere? By the way, I don't agree that I played any games with words. That was just an assertion on your part and you did not disprove my claim.

You said that there could not be more than one infinite being. Your argument was that if one was infinite the other could not be. However, there is no reason to believe that. Two parallel lines are infinite, do not intersect, and do not interfere with each other's existence. Now, if you were to claim that two beings could not both be omnipotent I wouldn't argue, but you said infinite and I cannot think of a reason why there could not be more than one infinite being if it is possible for one being to be infinite.

Edit: Also, I wonder what you mean when you say infinite here?

@deepthought said
You said that there could not be more than one infinite being. Your argument was that if one was infinite the other could not be. However, there is no reason to believe that. Two parallel lines are infinite, do not intersect, and do not interfere with each other's existence. Now, if you were to claim that two beings could not both be omnipotent I wouldn't argue, but y ...[text shortened]... why there could not be more than one infinite being if it is possible for one being to be infinite.

I think what's happened here is, Darius, in his haste to sound snooty, has simply bungled his attempt to trot out the old Unstoppable Thing v Immovable Thing chestnut.

@darfius said
The existence of one infinite being necessarily requires the existence of zero other infinite beings. Learn to think and we will welcome you into the Christian fold.

What is an "infinite being"?
(And what does the term mean.)

@darfius said
What if one wanted to do something and the other wanted him not to do it? You're not very bright.

Think outside your little box!

Four solutions off the top of my head.
1. Divergent universes, each gets their own way in one universe.
or
2. "Infinite beings" (whatever that may mean) always want the same thing.
or
3. Both being omniscient the situation would never arrive.
or
4. When the situation arises all deities spontaneously combust.

@fmf said
Belief in supernatural causality - like yours - is a sort of blend of intricate interwoven perceptions, opinions and assumptions, "gut feelings" ...instinct and intuition... and highly personal things like aspiration and emotion and identity and belonging.

Religious people take this blend of psychological stuff and rationalize it and even intellectualize it by reference to th ...[text shortened]... id than - the beliefs of others, is just you being pretty much as subjective as you can possibly be.

All opinion, unsubstantiated claims and therefore worthless. You atheists are an emotional lot, aren't you. Sorry, "potential deists" when you don't feel like looking so stupid as atheists do all the time.

@deepthought said
You said that there could not be more than one infinite being. Your argument was that if one was infinite the other could not be. However, there is no reason to believe that. Two parallel lines are infinite, do not intersect, and do not interfere with each other's existence. Now, if you were to claim that two beings could not both be omnipotent I wouldn't argue, but y ...[text shortened]... ible for one being to be infinite.

Edit: Also, I wonder what you mean when you say infinite here?

Do you know the difference between a "line" with one property (that of being a line) and an infinite being? Infinity. haha. "deepthought"

where do these "parallel lines" exist? they cannot be infinite if they require a space to exist within. man, atheists are dumb.

@wolfgang59 said
What is an "infinite being"?
(And what does the term mean.)

An infinite being is a being that is infinite, ya know, boundless? Infinite power, infinite knowledge, infinite presence, infinite love. Playing ignorant won't save you from the judgement seat of Christ.

@wolfgang59 said
Think outside your little box!

Four solutions off the top of my head.
1. Divergent universes, each gets their own way in one universe.
or
2. "Infinite beings" (whatever that may mean) always want the same thing.
or
3. Both being omniscient the situation would never arrive.
or
4. When the situation arises all deities spontaneously combust.

1. An infinitely present being must necessarily be present in all "universes." Fail.
2. Two minds cannot have the exact same thoughts or they are the same mind. And since with omniscience and omnipotence there is no difference between thought and being, two infinite minds which disagree is an impossibility. Fail.
3. There cannot be two all-knowing beings. They would each have to know all the thoughts--past, present, future--of the other and that would be an infinite loop...impossible. Fail.
4. A waste of space and our time. Epic fail.

That "little box" is called logic, which you atheists abandon when it suits you to continue in your carnal, wicked desires like the spineless, unprincipled, dishonest, selfish cowards that you all without fail are.

@darfius said

That "little box" is called logic, which you atheists abandon when it suits you to continue in your carnal, wicked desires like the spineless, unprincipled, dishonest, selfish cowards that you all without fail are.

And the little old lady who spends her life caring for others but, perhaps due to bad experiences with religion in her life or traumatic life events, has no belief in God. Does she also fall into your category of 'carnal, wicked desires like the spineless, unprincipled, dishonest, selfish cowards that you all without fail'? - Apparently so.

I sense much hate in you. Hate is the path to the dark side...

@ghost-of-a-duke said
And the little old lady who spends her life caring for others but, perhaps due to bad experiences with religion in her life or traumatic life events, has no belief in God. Does she also fall into your category of 'carnal, wicked desires like the spineless, unprincipled, dishonest, selfish cowards that you all without fail'? - Apparently so.

I sense much hate in you. Hate is the path to the dark side...

That little old lady doesn't exist. In reality her "help" is unsought, unneeded, ineffective and carried out to fulfill her own need for control, attention and thrill. I don't hate anyone, but I certainly hate what they allow themselves to become.

@darfius said
That little old lady doesn't exist. In reality her "help" is unsought, unneeded, ineffective and carried out to fulfill her own need for control, attention and thrill. I don't hate anyone, but I certainly hate what they allow themselves to become.

You indeed have hate for people.
Your hatred of yourself is evident.

@caissad4 said
You indeed have hate for people.
Your hatred of yourself is evident.

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."