03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @suzianneYou are claiming that the Romans executed Jesus "for being the Redeemer of mankind"? I haven't heard this claim before. He was executed for sedition, surely?
JYes, what informs this entire discussion is that my Lord and Savior was reviled and put to death for being exactly who he was, the Redeemer of mankind.
03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @suzianneThat's an angry response but the subject of my post was the words you did in fact use.
Jibe? Bigotry? Look, do you think I have no idea why you are even here? Attacking Christians seems to be a cottage industry lately.
As you say, it's not like I am exposing a dark secret. Calling out Mohammed and the Qur'an for what they are is just truth.
And how dare you quote scripture to me? (And don't try to argue with me by telling me what p ...[text shortened]... s because you speak truth to those who would keep others down. That's NOT what I am doing here.
You have not read my own post correctly and so you attacked a straw man.
03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @fmfLeave it to you (the career Christian attacker) to miss my point.
You are claiming that the Romans executed Jesus "for being the Redeemer of mankind"? I haven't heard this claim before. He was executed for sedition, surely?
I was talking about Christian belief. Christians believe that Christ was an innocent, devoid of sin. He was not a criminal and so he was put to death for who he was, not for some trumped up charge.
... "And don't call me Shirley."
Originally posted by @finneganI was just unfairly attacked for my belief. I responded in a rather restrained way, I thought.
That's an angry response but the subject of my post was the words you did in fact use.
You have not read my own post correctly and so you attacked a straw man.
And you pout and summon up the "straw man" defense.
I expected better.
And for your information, I was NOT "trying to shake the faith" of ANY Muslims. My beef was not with Muslims. They learn a scripture and they do their best to abide by it. My calling Mohammed a thief and a criminal is not meant to disparage a religion or its adherents. It was meant to show the failings of their scripture. Much of it goes directly against what my scripture says, and I'm saying there is an obvious reason for that. I stand by the rest of my post.
03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @suzianneSedition was a crime. That is a fact that is unaffected by your personal belief.
I was talking about Christian belief. Christians believe that Christ was an innocent, devoid of sin. He was not a criminal and so he was put to death for who he was, not for some trumped up charge.
03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @fmfAnd if one spoke out against the Third Reich by exposing the gas chambers, do you think the Nazis would just let that go? Chances are you'd be shot at dawn. That doesn't make one a criminal.
Sedition was a crime. That is a fact that is unaffected by your personal belief.
Jesus' "crime" was a crime of man. It was an excuse to get him out of the way so Passover could progress without incident. But Man cannot judge God. To do so is a crime against God. Which crime do you suppose I think is worse? Your tawdry legalism doesn't move me. The bald fact is that he was killed because he was who he was. Satan just couldn't let him get away. People were moved to ensure he was eliminated.
03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @suzianneJesus' message, which we can assume was not a secret, was that the Jews' god figure was going to intervene in the political arrangements of the day, crush the enemies of Israel (the Jews), and restore the world to some sort of previous, lost perfection, and install some form of theocracy that most certainly did not involve the Romans ruling anymore.
Jesus' "crime" was a crime of man. It was an excuse to get him out of the way so Passover could progress without incident. But Man cannot judge God. To do so is a crime against God. Which crime do you suppose I think is worse? Your tawdry legalism doesn't move me. The bald fact is that he was killed because he was who he was. Satan just couldn't let him get away. People were moved to ensure he was eliminated.
This message would have been an unequivocally political one to the people he lived among, even to his followers, and, of course, to the government, which would have known his teaching explicitly involved their overthrow and replacement.
This made him a rebel against the Roman Empire. And that's sedition ~ regardless of what his distraught followers may have wanted to believe ~ for which the method of execution was crucifixion.
03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @suziannePersonally, I hold no candle for the Romans, so I think Jesus should have been allowed to live out his days.
And if one spoke out against the Third Reich by exposing the gas chambers, do you think the Nazis would just let that go? Chances are you'd be shot at dawn. That doesn't make one a criminal.
03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @fmfWhich he did, according to some sources, surviving the cross, cut down early, guards being paid off, covered in healing ointments like Aloe, which is says in the bible which would suggest he was not dead since they wanted to heal him, miraculously shows up 3 days later and now realizing he would REALLY be a dead man if he showed his face in Jerusalem, high tailed it out of town up the silk road, founding monasteries along the way and died in Kashmir decades later.
Personally, I hold no candle for the Romans, so I think Jesus should have been allowed to live out his days.
THAT story makes a LOT more sense to me.
03 Sep 17
Originally posted by @suzianne...and yet I certainly made no attack on your belief whatsoever but specifically expressed my disappointment with "your little islamaphobic jibe."
I was just unfairly attacked for my belief. I responded in a rather restrained way, I thought.
And you pout and summon up the "straw man" defense.
I expected better.
And for your information, I was NOT "trying to shake the faith" of ANY Muslims. My beef was not with Muslims. They learn a scripture and they do their best to abide by it. My call ...[text shortened]... pture says, and I'm saying there is an obvious reason for that. I stand by the rest of my post.
