21 Feb 09
Originally posted by dystoniacwhat, your mother didn't love you? what makes one this irrational?
The sole right Church is the one Jesus's disciples started shortly after His death, resurrection, and ascention into Heaven...the one that I worship in today. You, too, can claim this if you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Today is the day of salvation!!!
21 Feb 09
Originally posted by chappy1sure he would. but he might have to try Orbitz, Expedia, Travelocity, or Priceline -- dontcha hate the way these guys buy up all the good flights and hotels, making it harder for those of us who are a little discriminating in what we want in terms of transportation and accommodations to reach Paradise ...
No, you would have no chance.
So, he's got plenty of chances. Why wouldn't he?
21 Feb 09
3 edits
Originally posted by Scriabin''Certainty is a trap. Certainty leads to things such as what people did to other people at places like Dachau.''
Certainty is a trap. Certainty leads to things such as what people did to other people at places like Dachau.
When you are certain, for example, that you can tell us exactly where any particular electron in any particular atom of any substance you care to name may be, be sure to let us know, won't you?
Believe it or not, the entire universe may be sym
If you hedge your bets, aren't you setting yourself up for disappointment, even failure?
i would be as bold as to refute this statement. What happened at Dachau and the other concentration camps was the result of the application of social Darwinism, a human ideology and a product of the mind. What was exceptional was that this ideology was able to completely suppress the exercise of human conscience and the most horrific atrocities resulted as a consequence of theses two processes.
What this has to do with certainty or uncertainty i do not know. infact what is more this type of question to me is futile, for it means that the search for solutions is futile, for the best that we can expect is a substitution for truth until another is discovered, thus we are always learning but never able to come to an accurate knowledge.
when i was going for an interview for enrollment at Glasgow School of Art, (everyone had to submit a portfolio and attend an interview), one of the lecturers put for the statement during the interview that there were only right questions, no right answers, something similar to this idea that there are no certainties or the very least, as you say, certainty is a trap. At the time i was wanting to make a good impression and said nothing, privately i was thinking what complete and utter tosh, for if there are no right answers, why are we searching for solutions.
There is also an interesting Biblical principle which may also shed some light on this matter, for it portrays the opposite view, that it is uncertainty that is dangerous. I produce it here for your thoughts and perusal.
'So, if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about...........he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways'
thus uncertainty makes us like a wave of the sea, blown here and there by every wind of thought and type of teaching.
Interestingly is it not so in a game of chess, we cannot see because of melee and confusion which leads to uncertainty, as a consequence we do not formulate a plan, because we are planless we make an arbitrary move and we come to loss, is it not the case with uncertainty?
21 Feb 09
Originally posted by FMFA muslim converting to Christianity will face death.
Hypothetical scenario.
If I were a Catholic who had, thus far led a good life, and done all the things I was supposed to do, outwardly as well as in my heart. And here I was, at the midpoint of my adult life, converting to Islam (not superficially but after study and instruction) so that I could marry the love of my life, a Muslim woman. If I continued to liv ...[text shortened]... Muslim tradition... at the end of my life, would I still have a good chance of going to heaven?
If all religions are equal as many think, then a Catholic converting to Islam should also face death.
So the answer to your question is that, you should die.
22 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieconsider scientific uncertainty. I am in the field of environmental law, which depends on environmental and chemical sciences. Scientists often define "scientific certainty" as "being 95% sure that cause and effect have been correctly identified." It is exceedingly rare for a large group of scientists to be 95% certain about anything, especially about anything as complex as an environmental problem.
''Certainty is a trap. Certainty leads to things such as what people did to other people at places like Dachau.''
i would be as bold as to refute this statement. What happened at Dachau and the other concentration camps was the result of the application of social Darwinism, a human ideology and a product of the mind. What was exceptional was th anless we make an arbitrary move and we come to loss, is it not the case with uncertainty?
When you're talking about living systems, great scientific uncertainty is the norm. Even in the case of an ultra-well-studied chemical like dioxin, scientific uncertainty far outweighs firm knowledge of cause and effect.
In the field of physics, there is an "uncertainty relation" between the position and the momentum (mass times velocity) of a subatomic particle, such as an electron. This relation has profound implications for such fundamental notions as causality and the determination of the future behavior of an atomic particle.
The most succinct statement I know of the uncertainty relation was made by Heisenberg in 1927: "The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa."
Further, in the same paper, Heisenberg said that in the sharp formulation of the law of causality-- "if we know the present exactly, we can calculate the future --
it is not the conclusion that is wrong but the premise. "
So, Heisenberg declared, because one cannot know the precise position and momentum of a particle at a given instant, so its future cannot be determined. One cannot calculate the precise future motion of a particle, but only a range of possibilities for the future motion of the particle.
The equations developed by Heisenberg, Schrödinger and their colleagues give a glimpse into the nature of reality, but that's not all. They are also essential tools of modern work in key areas of practical technology--including the electronics you are using to read this post. Many important physical effects, from fluorescent lights to the shape of a snowflake, cannot be understood at all without quantum mechanics.
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle does not say "everything is uncertain." Rather, it tells us very exactly where the limits of uncertainty lie when we make measurements of sub-atomic events.
I point all this out to show you that being certain is another form of delusion.
What happened at Dachau was not the application of any such thing as social Darwinism. What happened at Dachau was mass murder. People justify that by claiming to be certain they are in the right.
Other people put forward their beliefs and claim certainty in the unquestionable truth of those beliefs. They are wrong to do so.
There always is room for reason, room to explore probabilities other than the one of which some may be certain. That is not corrosive doubt at all, it is called being rational.
22 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999first of all, you missed his question just to make a silly post.
A muslim converting to Christianity will face death.
If all religions are equal as many think, then a Catholic converting to Islam should also face death.
So the answer to your question is that, you should die.
second, there is no support for either the first part or the second part of your absurd 2nd sentence. You set up a strawman argument, a logical fallacy, by referring vaguely to some concept of religious equality which the OP does not reference or embrace, then you knock the strawman down by reaching an illogical conclusion -- one that does not necessarily follow from whatever you may have referred to as your premise.
This is because the strawman is a false premise on its face -- true consequences cannot follow from a false premise.
but you knew that, presumable and so we can take you at your word that you are lying.
22 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Scriabini am sorry but your statements are quite unacceptable, for they fail on a number of points, firstly you make no attempt to validate your statement that the atrocities were committed because of certainty, nor have you addressed what the premise for these atrocities was based upon. What happened at Dachau and the other concentration camps was mass murder, but it was mass murder with a premise, that being the execution of the Jews and other undesirables. This premise had a basis, did it not, that they held the Jews and Slavs and others to be racially inferior. Now one must ask the question, where did this originate from, was it a product of Nazi ideology or did it originate from some other source, and if you do some research on the subject you will find that indeed, it had its basis in the evolutionary hypothesis and was nothing more than an attempt to apply it on a social level.
consider scientific uncertainty. I am in the field of environmental law, which depends on environmental and chemical sciences. Scientists often define "scientific certainty" as "being 95% sure that cause and effect have been correctly identified." It is exceedingly rare for a large group of scientists to be 95% certain about anything, especially about anyt may be certain. That is not corrosive doubt at all, it is called being rational.
Plus your other statements with regard to science are based on uncertainty, but this is not the case with all things, and therefore it is quite flawed. Take music for example, it is filled with certainty, the notes, their duration of length and pitch are quite precise, the sequences of notes unless played in a certain way would not make sense and there would be discord, even the rules governing harmony are also well defined and quite certain enabling a composer not only to forge new musical truths from a finite range of audible notes, but to rearrange these in a certain sequence that would make no sense whatsoever if they were uncertain with regard to intensity, length and pitch.
others are at liberty to claim what they like, if you cannot subject it to refutation, then it stands, but to claim that they are wrong to do so, is quite flawed, for it has no basis whatsoever.
22 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ScriabinNo this is also quite flawed, for we do not always see, and given your rating, neither do you! and yes, there are individuals who are willing to make unsubstantiated claims like, there is no certainty, or certainty is a trap, without any basis whatsoever and willing to make the claim as if it was a certainty!
btw, as regards to chess, no -- we DO see. YOU may not. But not everyone is as quick to make snap assumptions based on no evidence and then post a conclusion as though it is a certainty.
Thanks for the help, there.
22 Feb 09
Originally posted by ScriabinI am only guilty of including comments from other threads in this one.
first of all, you missed his question just to make a silly post.
second, there is no support for either the first part or the second part of your absurd 2nd sentence. You set up a strawman argument, a logical fallacy, by referring vaguely to some concept of religious equality which the OP does not reference or embrace, then you knock the strawman down b ...[text shortened]... remise.
but you knew that, presumable and so we can take you at your word that you are lying.
In the thread "Muslim activist beheads wife", many concluded that all religions have their fair share of extremism... there is no difference.
In the thread, "Of all the world's evils, lying is the least of them...", Ahosyney agrees with some of the more extreme punishments laid down by Islamic law/guidelines particularly death for adulterers and apostates.
22 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI see that further discussion with you is futile. There are so many points at which your assertions fall to the ground. But it would take so much time and there would be nothing I would gain by it.
i am sorry but your statements are quite unacceptable, for they fail on a number of points, firstly you make no attempt to validate your statement that the atrocities were committed because of certainty, nor have you addressed what the premise for these atrocities was based upon. What happened at Dachau and the other concentration camps was mass murd ...[text shortened]... nds, but to claim that they are wrong to do so, is quite flawed, for it has no basis whatsoever.
As for the statement you find so unacceptable -- well, you haven't read Dr. Jacob Bronowski's work, I'm afraid. His family was killed at Dachau and his explanation for that fact supports the view I expressed. I will simply say that you've no real appreciation or knowledge of what the Final Solution was all about -- you don't have its premise at all accurate. Perhaps you'd care to visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC's website to become better informed.
Again, it is not worth the time to gain even a glimmer from you. I'm perfectly content that you feel yourself so certain. Much it will not profit you, in all probability.
22 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999ah, well at least you admit your guilt and your sentence is to go stand in the corner for about 2 minutes and reflect on your many and various transgressions.
I am only guilty of including comments from other threads in this one.
In the thread "Muslim activist beheads wife", many concluded that all religions have their fair share of extremism... there is no difference.
In the thread, "Of all the world's evils, lying is the least of them...", Ahosyney agrees with some of the more extreme punishments laid down by Islamic law/guidelines particularly death for adulterers and apostates.
You can choose the corner over near the refrigerator,and if it happens to be within reach, I guess it would be ok to open it and scarf down everything you like within the 2 minutes you have to be there.
I'm afraid you are another one I've really no interest in further investment of time -- I've a lot of useless electronic boxes of crap around that do not work as they are supposed to and it has fallen to me to spend almost all of my free time on hold trying to reach someone who can tell me why the @#%@%@# things don't work.
It doesn't help that all of these pieces of crap are things for other people to amuse themselves. All my boxes of useless electronic crap seem to be in working order.
So you'll pardon me if I don't continue to spend time uselessly trying to fix various non-electronic boxes of crap on this site whose neural networks either have serious flaws or have entirely broken down.
22 Feb 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobiegee, I didn't realize we were in the presence of someone so august and all knowing that he outshines even Heisenberg with respect to quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle.
No this is also quite flawed, for we do not always see, and given your rating, neither do you! and yes, there are individuals who are willing to make unsubstantiated claims like, there is no certainty, or certainty is a trap, without any basis whatsoever and willing to make the claim as if it was a certainty!
What a math whiz you must be -- what a physics giant, too.
Of course, the uncertainty priniciple and the equations that have proven out over the years since 1927 can't count, can't stack up against the vast amount of evidence you present -- which is, what? can't quite recall.
Ah, yes, your assertion that the last one to claim he's right must be -- how profound. Can you state that one mathematically for us?
But you have delighted me enough. I've had a perfectly wonderful conversation, but the one with you wasn't it.
22 Feb 09
Originally posted by black beetleYou must be a wannabe psychoanalyst. I couldn't have crapped my pants to come up with anything better to contest your statement. 🙄
It seems to me that all you know is that you believe whatever you believe because you decided out of the blue to believe it without the slightest evaluation of the nature of your beliefs, and your beliefs have nothing to do with understanding; but this is typical for the people who think that their mind is an apparatus that they think they use it in order to think😵