Christians are chosen.

Originally posted by divegeester
You have scripture that can specifically back up this claim?

1 John 4

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.


Anyone who denies Christ has the spirit of the ant-Christ.


1 John 5

8 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


If you do not recognize sin as sin, then you continue in it. Anyone who teaches that you can continue in that sin is not of God.


Were you looking for verses from the Bible that states abandoning natural man and woman relations is sinful? I can provide those if you like.

Originally posted by roigam
I am totally open to the Bible's view!

I find the truth in the Bible.
That's why I quote the Bible primarily.
Although sometimes I miss the mark.
Jw's are not perfect nor are we prophets.
The Bible says no one is perfect but love covers a multitude of error.
Also, probably in opposition to your way of thinking, we do not prophesy.
We do study the Bib ...[text shortened]... d there.
As Christians, it is our responsibility to do that.
Now, honestly, what do you think?

You quote the NWT primarily.

It is a showcase of JW dogma, it's not the Bible.

Oh, it's close enough to fool some, but as they say, "The devil's in the details."

Originally posted by Suzianne
You quote the NWT primarily.

It is a showcase of JW dogma, it's not the Bible.

Oh, it's close enough to fool some, but as they say, "The devil's in the details."

Its not the Bible? How would you know? You don't know anything about accuracy in translation. All you are doing is projecting your ignorance and your prejudices. Its transparent for all to see except for you, you are fooling no one but yourself.

Originally posted by Eladar
They are children of Satan because they disagree with God.

I'm fine with that. It isn't between me and anyone but God. Same goes with all others. I feel sorry for you if you disagree with God.

So, again, if they disagree with you, they disagree with God?

What a preposterously arrogant attitude to take!

Unfortunately echoed by many here.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its not the Bible? how would you know?

How would I know??

JW dogma is against nearly every other Christian dogma. Dogma which is derived from the Bible. You have your own dogma, already made up, which you then used to create a Bible which miraculously supports it, after refusing other mainstream Bibles which did NOT support it.

It disagrees with the Bible in many important cases, all to support your own, twisted dogma, created out of whole cloth. Yes, your Bible is unbiblical, as is your entire dogma.

And please, your "accuracy in translation" schtick has been debunked.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Is not the Scripture rather clear? Those who were brought forth out of darkness to declare abroad the excellencies of God. All who are declaring abroad the excellencies of God are my fellow Christians and chosen ones.

The funny part here is the thousands of other religions, each one proclaiming only THEY have the true answers and they will kill you if you disagree. Pretty much just like Christianity. Or do you deny Christians kill for their god?

Originally posted by sonhouse
The funny part here is the thousands of other religions, each one proclaiming only THEY have the true answers and they will kill you if you disagree. Pretty much just like Christianity. Or do you deny Christians kill for their god?

People may have killed in the name of Christianity, but this makes them, by definition, not Christian.

Originally posted by Suzianne
How would I know??

JW dogma is against nearly every other Christian dogma. Dogma which is derived from the Bible. You have your own dogma, already made up, which you then used to create a Bible which miraculously supports it, after refusing other mainstream Bibles which did NOT support it.

It disagrees with the Bible in many important cases, all to ...[text shortened]... s is your entire dogma.

And please, your "accuracy in translation" schtick has been debunked.

How would you know an accurate translation, this was the question. Nothing you have said indicates that you do know anything about accurate translation or that you even understood the question. You have been asked countless times by me and others to substantiate your claims regarding the NWT and so far all you have managed to produce is pure bumf like the above. Its intellectually dishonest. Either you know what makes an accurate translation or you do not and all you can proffer is these unsubstantiated opinions that have no basis in any reality beyond your own prejudices and ignorance, That's all they amount to and its all you amount to by making them, ignorant and prejudiced. That is a serious thing and if I was you I would be very worried about that.

Please do not comment on publications that you have not read, you are only making it worse.

Originally posted by Suzianne
People may have killed in the name of Christianity, but this makes them, by definition, not Christian.

So that means they will spend eternity in a burning hell then? Would that be the same for Islam, Hindu, Jaynes, first nation religions and the like? A tribe deep in the forest of Peru for instance, with their religion never having had contact with the outside world, they too are condemned to this burning hell you love so much?

Originally posted by Eladar
1 John 4

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.


Anyone who denies Christ has the sp ...[text shortened]... at states abandoning natural man and woman relations is sinful? I can provide those if you like.

What has this stuff about "denying Christ" got to do with your claim that anyone who disagrees with god is a child of Satan? It's not the same thing and seems like you are trying to conflate scripture to mean "anyone who disagrees with Eledar's interpretation of what God thinks, is a child of Satan"

Originally posted by sonhouse
So that means they will spend eternity in a burning hell then? Would that be the same for Islam, Hindu, Jaynes, first nation religions and the like? A tribe deep in the forest of Peru for instance, with their religion never having had contact with the outside world, they too are condemned to this burning hell you love so much?

For your information, I don't believe ANYone is going to "burn eternally in hell" (except for Satan and his lieutenants), so maybe you could dial it back a notch there. Maybe you could pay attention to what people say in this forum before just assuming that 'all theists are ass-holes'.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
How would you know an accurate translation, this was the question. Nothing you have said indicates that you do know anything about accurate translation or that you even understood the question. You have been asked countless times by me and others to substantiate your claims regarding the NWT and so far all you have managed to produce is pure bumf li ...[text shortened]...

Please do not comment on publications that you have not read, you are only making it worse.

I'm not going to argue this until we both die of old-age OR boredom.

You asked me a question; I answered.

If you don't like my answer, then go pound sand.

Originally posted by Suzianne
For your information, I don't believe ANYone is going to "burn eternally in hell" (except for Satan and his lieutenants), so maybe you could dial it back a notch there. Maybe you could pay attention to what people say in this forum before just assuming that 'all theists are ass-holes'.

I never said all theists are asssholes. The most I would say is, since religions are man made, the majority followers are simply duped into believing. Some religions it is more that merely being duped, like the official policy of Islam when they get military power, forced conversions or die. Apostate, you die. Female adulterer, you die. I don't see that so much in Christianity at least not in THIS century. I'm sure a lot of that happened a thousand years ago, by your definition, those people would not be christian either.

It's mainly the literalists I have a beef against. Those who fully believe your loving god cared so little for the land animals it killed them all just to get at a few hundred allegedly bad humans.
It seems to me (and of course you will now pull the 'so now you know the mind of god' card) that a real god capable of calling in an entire universe and who went to the trouble of making all the land animals and insects and so forth, would not have wanted to kill all of them just to make a point to humans.

If real, it would have gone, you bad humans, you need to stop your party ways and start worshiping me again. Humans don't listen, no flood, just a large bolt of energy from the sky, no more bad humans.

BTW, what would literalists say about the fact that 99.999% of insects would die too?

AND what would they say to the known problem of having just a single pair of reproducing animals, what that would have done to the diversity of the genetic pool.

And to the fact that there is a large diversity of genetics in animals that would never have had the time to take place in the mere few thousand years of the so-called world wide flood.

But none of that matters to literalists. They are, by definition, duped.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I never said all theists are asssholes. The most I would say is, since religions are man made, the majority followers are simply duped into believing. Some religions it is more that merely being duped, like the official policy of Islam when they get military power, forced conversions or die. Apostate, you die. Female adulterer, you die. I don't see that so ...[text shortened]... d world wide flood.

But none of that matters to literalists. They are, by definition, duped.

Man, over time, has been pretty bad, and mostly to each other. (By the way, your "you bad humans, you need to stop your party ways and start worshiping me again" is exactly what God said to the Hebrews and why He brought them to and through the Babylonian Exile, but that is another story. (They have had a long history of 'not listening'. ) )

I agree that a lot of the limited intelligence brought to God is from the literalist and the fundamentalist. I've said for years that the most ancient writings in the OT were written for man of 3500 years ago. Man's knowledge was in short supply then. (Some say that it is still in remarkably short supply today. ) Man was given a story to believe in and have faith because the concept of God had to be given in a way that ancient man could understand. Like it or not, there was no knowledge of things we take for granted today, like bacteria or chemical reactions or even that men and women should be treated equally. If the Bible had contained these concepts, people would have blown it off like yesterday's news. The genius of the Bible is that it was written so that ancient man could understand the concepts because of how they were presented, in words and ideas they understood, but modern man can also understand because he can see the underlying strata of what was really going on even though the presentation of the concepts is primitive. The problem comes about when modern man says "Nope, it had to be EXACTLY as written, because IT IS WRITTEN, SO SHALL IT BE. AMEN." The Bible itself becomes God for these people and they dare not "cross it". The Creation, the Flood, these things develop a fanciful abstract quality because "God doesn't do things in a small way". No, it was written like a story because Man himself at that time was like a child to us now, and this is made worse because "all stories have a moral". But sometimes, to my way of thinking, "a cigar is just a cigar." No need to read more into it than what actually happened, but this made it believable for man at that time, but we don't need this buffering layer of inaccurate facts today. It is this dichotomy which makes the rabid "believers" believe that it happened "just that way" and also makes the unbelievers think that the whole thing is just "made-up nonsense." The truth is somewhere in-between. No "duping" involved, just people not really "getting it", and on both sides of the "belief" equation.