Case for Christ (Not Strobel)

Originally posted by Darfius
Sin did exist. Lucifer sinned before Adam and Eve did. And they chose to disobey God, you can't define sin any better than that.

What is your Scriptural support for this?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Darfius
Yes, I am saying purgatory doesn't exist and that forgiveness after God's appointed time for forgiveness does not exist.

I never brought up purgatory, so I don't know why you think I was
insinuating it.

When is God's appointed time and what your Scriptural reason for
believing in that appointed time?

Nemesio

Originally posted by kirksey957
Do you think the fall was inevitable?

Since the fall didn't affect birth rates, and since there have been billions of people in history, yes I think one of those billions would have used their free will to disobey God and thus driving Him away from earth.

Originally posted by Nemesio
What is your Scriptural support for this?

Nemesio

The serpent's brain capacity did not change after the fall. Do you propose that a modern day snake is smart enough to tempt a human being with sin?

Originally posted by Darfius
Since the fall didn't affect birth rates, and since there have been billions of people in history, yes I think one of those billions would have used their free will to disobey God and thus driving Him away from earth.

So say if there were 500 people and one of them sinned, God would kick this person out and the others would be able to stay in Eden

Originally posted by Nemesio
I never brought up purgatory, so I don't know why you think I was
insinuating it.

When is God's appointed time and what your Scriptural reason for
believing in that appointed time?

Nemesio

9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Since by accepting Christ we die to our sins, men cannot both die and die again after death to accept Christ.

Christians die once, and then sleep before going to Heaven.

Originally posted by kirksey957
So say if there were 500 people and one of them sinned, God would kick this person out and the others would be able to stay in Eden

That person would have tainted Eden with their sin, God couldn't stay there. That is what happened with earth.

Originally posted by Darfius
Yes, I am saying purgatory doesn't exist and that forgiveness after God's appointed time for forgiveness does not exist.

This may be outside of orthodoxy but If God wanted to let someone into heaven that would be his choice even if they did not choose him in life. example as Darfius says children are let into heaven or mentally handicaped people. God already paid the price for there sins. I know some Christians would have issue with this concept but I think Christians put God into a box at times. menace71 (manny)

Originally posted by Darfius
The serpent's brain capacity did not change after the fall. Do you propose that a modern day snake is smart enough to tempt a human being with sin?

You keep saying 'the fall.' Do you mean humankind's fall from
grace, or the apocryphal fall of Satan? (This is just for clarity.)

I take the serpent to be a representation of Satan, not an ordinary
snake, so your question doesn't really make sense.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
You keep saying 'the fall.' Do you mean humankind's fall from
grace, or the apocryphal fall of Satan? (This is just for clarity.)

I take the serpent to be a representation of Satan, not an ordinary
snake, so your question doesn't really make sense.

Nemesio

Fall from grace. Representation? Elaborate. And what do you mean by apocryphal? John saw Satan's final booting from Heaven in Revelations. Paul speaks about Satan all the time. Satan had to fall sometime. He was the one who messed up Job's life. Honestly, I won't search for Scripture because it is widely accepted that the snake was Satan.

Originally posted by Darfius
9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Since by accepting Christ we die to our sins, men cannot both die and die again after death to accept Christ.

Christians die once, and then sleep before going to Heaven.

Are you quoting Hebrews 9:27-28?

The NAB reads very differently:
Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this
the judgment, so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of
the many, will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring
salvation to those who eagerly await him.

The King James 28 reads: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I see no reference to sleeping, but eagerly awaiting him.

What am I missing?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Are you quoting Hebrews 9:27-28?

The NAB reads very differently:
Just as it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this
the judgment, so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of
the many, will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring
salvation to those [b]who eagerly await him.

The King James 28 reads: So Ch ...[text shortened]... n.

I see no reference to sleeping, but eagerly awaiting him.

What am I missing?

Nemesio[/b]

Uh, that's the Christians who will be alive at His 2nd coming.

Originally posted by Darfius
Uh, that's the Christians who will be alive at His 2nd coming.

Yes, but it doesn't say that they aren't awake and able to interact
with the world, that they can't be rejoicing with God at repentant
sinners.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Yes, but it doesn't say that they aren't awake and able to interact
with the world, that they can't be rejoicing with God at repentant
sinners.

Nemesio

The verse is ONLY about Christians who will be alive on earth at Jesus' 2nd coming.

Your CONJECTURE that dead in Christ are not only in Heaven with glorified bodies (that can leave heaven and go to earth) AND are omnipresent is lunacy.

Originally posted by Darfius
Your CONJECTURE that dead in Christ are not only in Heaven with glorified bodies (that can leave heaven and go to earth) AND are omnipresent is lunacy.

I made no such conjecture.

The words 'glorified bodies' cannot be found in my entire corpus of
posts.

What I am saying is that it is more reasonable for Christians to
believe that Jesus has human company up in heaven based on the
reading of St Luke 15. The passage from Hebrews doesn't contradict
that; it simply says that those who have died are eagerly awaiting the
time when they will receive the fullness of grace at the second coming.

In the meantime, they can pray, hopefully for you.

Nemesio