Calling out Sonship on the trinity and salvation

@kellyjay said
You are also a backslider asking me to go over basic doctrine we have gone over before. You cannot bring yourself to share what you once believed, and ask me the same questions over and over. Read the Bible, it may come back to you.

Why do you get so peculiarly defensive when asked about your beliefs?

@kellyjay said
You cannot bring yourself to share what you once believed, and ask me the same questions over and over.

I post here as an atheist. I will share pretty much anything about my current beliefs and opinions.

@kellyjay said
You are also a backslider asking me to go over basic doctrine we have gone over before. You cannot bring yourself to share what you once believed, and ask me the same questions over and over. Read the Bible, it may come back to you.

'Backsliding, also known as falling away or committing apostasy, is a term used within Christianity to describe a process by which an individual who has converted to Christianity reverts to pre-conversion habits and/or lapses or falls into sin, when a person turns from God to pursue their own desire.' (Wiki).


Is it your contention Kelly (in your use of Backslider) that all former Christians have only abandoned their faith due to a preference for sin and to live selfish lives? - Do you concede there are Christians who have lost their faith for very good reasons that having nothing to do with sin or selfishness? ('Backslider' is a particularly loaded word that perhaps shouldn't be used lightly).

@kellyjay said
You are also a backslider asking me to go over basic doctrine we have gone over before. You cannot bring yourself to share what you once believed, and ask me the same questions over and over. Read the Bible, it may come back to you.

You are using this as a “rip-cord” escape when under pressure.
Just addres the questions put to you about your beliefs and stop being a coward.

@kellyjay said
You are also a backslider asking me to go over basic doctrine we have gone over before. You cannot bring yourself to share what you once believed, and ask me the same questions over and over. Read the Bible, it may come back to you.

“Backslider” is not even a biblical term. This is just more regurgitated church-speak by you.

Why don’t read up yourself and stop being a prissy little churchman.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'Backsliding, also known as falling away or committing apostasy, is a term used within Christianity to describe a process by which an individual who has converted to Christianity reverts to pre-conversion habits and/or lapses or falls into sin, when a person turns from God to pursue their own desire.' (Wiki).


Is it your contention Kelly (in your use of Backslider ...[text shortened]... or selfishness? ('Backslider' is a particularly loaded word that perhaps shouldn't be used lightly).

The term is not biblical, it is secular.

Although I stand here to be corrected if I’m wrong.

@divegeester said
The term is not biblical, it is secular.

Although I stand here to be corrected if I’m wrong.

Yes, I doubt (like Trinity) it is found in the Bible.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Yes, I doubt (like Trinity) it is found in the Bible.

It is nuances like this that I take issue with KellyJay over.

KellyJay is a OSAS believer, therefore FMF was either never a Christian in the first place... or he still is one! If he never was one, then he cannot be a backslider (whatever that is). IF FMF was “saved” initially, then he still is!

This is a dilemma for the church-hivemind.

I.E. (thinks to self) How can a person who I intensely dislike, actually be a Christian. I know, I’ll call him a nasty name, that will help me look righteous in front of the others and make me feel better about losing whatever debate it is I’m involved with.

Of course if FMF was never “saved” then all KellyJay is doing is cementing FMF’s fate in the eternal torture of his version of hell.

Nice work KellyJay.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'Backsliding, also known as falling away or committing apostasy, is a term used within Christianity to describe a process by which an individual who has converted to Christianity reverts to pre-conversion habits and/or lapses or falls into sin, when a person turns from God to pursue their own desire.' (Wiki).


Is it your contention Kelly (in your use of Backslider ...[text shortened]... or selfishness? ('Backslider' is a particularly loaded word that perhaps shouldn't be used lightly).

Yes I have repeatedly said here I am not a once saved always saved believer. There are to many warnings about that, Jesus spoke parables about that!

Resting on one’s butt to slide into heaven due to a magical prayer isn’t Biblical.

@kellyjay said
Yes I have repeatedly said here I am not a once saved always saved believer. There are to many warnings about that, Jesus spoke parables about that!

Resting on one’s butt to slide into heaven due to a magical prayer isn’t Biblical.

So how does one undo one’s eternal salvation?

How does one ensure one remains saved? How does one know?

What circumstances would trigger someone being a child of God to becoming a child of the devil?

I don’t expect anything substantive from you. Maybe a fur ball or two.

While you’re avoiding those questions, perhaps you can explain precisely what a “backslider” is in relation to this “lose one’s salvation” notion.

Thought as much....

Looks like sonship has ducked out also.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'Backsliding, also known as falling away or committing apostasy, is a term used within Christianity to describe a process by which an individual who has converted to Christianity reverts to pre-conversion habits and/or lapses or falls into sin, when a person turns from God to pursue their own desire.' (Wiki).


Is it your contention Kelly (in your use of Backslider ...[text shortened]... or selfishness? ('Backslider' is a particularly loaded word that perhaps shouldn't be used lightly).

The thing is Jesus preached it, He gave warnings for example with the servant who was forgiven his debts, then lost His forgiveness because he would not forgive. There are several warnings about being cut off which can only happen to those who were attached. Jesus' warns about treating His other servants badly, those that are caught doing that will be thrown where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. I wish we were all ready, no one knows what hour we leave this place for the next.

Matthew 18

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times.
“Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’ And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay what you owe.’ So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you.’ He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'Backsliding, also known as falling away or committing apostasy, is a term used within Christianity to describe a process by which an individual who has converted to Christianity reverts to pre-conversion habits and/or lapses or falls into sin, when a person turns from God to pursue their own desire.' (Wiki).


Is it your contention Kelly (in your use of Backslider ...[text shortened]... or selfishness? ('Backslider' is a particularly loaded word that perhaps shouldn't be used lightly).

Backsliding isn't a hopeless place to be, after all Jesus spoke about leaving the 99 for the 1, but it isn't a good place to be either once all the choices are removed.
ESV

Isaiah 57:17
Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry, I struck him; I hid my face and was angry, but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart.

Jeremiah 8:5
Why then has this people turned away in perpetual backsliding? They hold fast to deceit; they refuse to return.

Jeremiah 14:7
“Though our iniquities testify against us, act, O Lord, for your name's sake; for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against you.

Ezekiel 37:23
They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

@kellyjay said
The thing is Jesus preached it, He gave warnings for example with the servant who was forgiven his debts, then lost His forgiveness because he would not forgive. There are several warnings about being cut off which can only happen to those who were attached. Jesus' warns about treating His other servants badly, those that are caught doing that will be thrown where there is w ...[text shortened]... my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

Maybe, the Jewish rabbi who lived 2,000 years ago - the one you worship - didn't have any understanding of atheism or agnosticism. Maybe Jesus only knew about Jews ~ devout Jews and not devout Jews. Which Bible verses - in your view - depict most clearly Jesus' understanding of lack of belief, of atheism, of agnosticism, and of people adhering to other religions?