Calling out Sonship on the trinity and salvation

@secondson said
What an incredibly ignorant thing to say. The truth is what God says it is.

But for you "Truth" is just a metaphor obviously. Lord knows we won't be hearing you talking about God's truth except when you're channeling ToO, and in the case of your post above, FMF.

Is that your god or my god?

Your the one who can’t decipher methaphor from literal in Mathew old boy. After 30+ years of “paying the odd bill” and throwing your “spiritual muscle” around in the youth group you really should focus on some bible study.

@divegeester said
Is that your god or my god?

Your the one who can’t decipher methaphor from literal in Mathew old boy. After 30+ years of “paying the odd bill” and throwing your “spiritual muscle” around in the youth group you really should focus on some bible study.

Have you not read that there's only one God?

Still haven't figured out what a metaphor is for?

@divegeester

Human language is limited in fully describing the nature of God. I think you made some progress.

Let me ask you this:

Had you been the writer of the Gospel of John would you NOT have written these verses ?

"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)

Would you have REFUSED to write that because of Deuteronomy 6:4

{quote] "Hear O Israel, Jehovah is our God; Jehovah is one." (Deut. 6:4) [/quote]

Yes - You would have written "We will come to him" ?

No - You would not have written "We will come to him"?


I think a person can be conversion on the doctrine of the Trinity and not be saved.

And I think a person may not be greatly conversant on the doctrine of the Trinity and still be saved.

I don't think believing in any mere doctrine in a mental way only will save you if you do not receive the Living Person of Christ.

Divegeester,

The Apostle John recorded Christ praying to the Father -

"That they all may be one; even as You Father, are in Me and I in You, they also may be in Us; ..." (John 17:21)

Would you have REFUSED to write that because of Deuteronomy 6:4

"Hear O Israel, Jehovah is our God; Jehovah is one." (Deut. 6:4)

Yes - You would have written "they also may be in Us" ?

No - You would not have written "they also may be in Us" ?

For the sake of Deut. 6:4 would you have refused to record that Jesus Christ prayed that way ?

Divegeester,

I don't think the mere mental belief in any doctrine results in receiving eternal life if the living Person of Jesus has not been received as Lord.

You called me out so you can answer me:

Is the "We" in John 14:23.

1.) The Father only?

2.) The Son only?

3.) Both the Father and the Son ?

Answer - 1, 2, or 3 ? Please.

Divegeester,

I don't think the mere mental belief in any doctrine results in receiving eternal life if the living Person of Jesus has not been received as Lord.

You can answer me:

Is the "Us" in John 17::21.

'That they all may be one, even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; ..." (John 17:21a)

Choose one please. Is the "Us" in that verse -

1.) The Father only?

2.) The Son only?

3.) Both the Father and the Son ?

Answer - 1, 2, or 3 ? Please.

@sonship said

Divegeester,

I don't think the mere mental belief in any doctrine results in receiving eternal life if the living Person of Jesus has not been received as Lord.

You can answer me:

Is the "Us" in John 17::21.

[quote] 'That they all may be one, even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; ..." (John 17:21a ...[text shortened]... on only?

[b] 3.) Both the Father and the Son ?

Answer - 1, 2, or 3 ? Please.

Let me know when you are ready to take up my “question challenge”

🙂

@divegeester

Don't let me know when you graduate from a gutless troll. It's likely to never be.

You "call me out" and then slink away into your self delusions of grandeur.

Here you go sonship...14 pages in and you still haven’t answered.

@divegeester said
Sonship, for three years I’ve been asking you if I have to believe in the trinity doctrine to be saved and for three years you have been refusing to give me a straight yes or no answer, because you claim that there isn’t one. I’ve told you for three years that I don’t believe you.

Here is a copy/paste from the statement of beliefs from the website of your own church sect:

”In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.”

https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/salvation/

There it is in unequivocal black and white text. So why is it so hard for you to copy/paste this text and justify it when I’ve been asking you for clarity for three years?!

Of course I don’t believe in the trinity doctrine and therefore you cannot classify me as Christian and therefore I will burn in Hell with the rest Of the unbelievers.

Perhaps you were right to be ashamed of this

Perhaps you were right to be ashamed of this

Talk about ashamed Divegeester ?

Watch this.

Divegeester, place the websites of any group of worshippers you have met with in the last 30 years.
Then we may examine their statement's of faith or outline of beliefs.

If you refuse, why should we not figure that behind all your excuses is some kind of shame or embarrassment?

Me ?
Here are the websites of three congregations I have met with for an accumulated three decades.
Usually Statements of Faith and Testimonies can be examined.

The church in New York City
http://churchinnyc.org

The church in Newton, Mass.
https://www.localchurches.org/churches/newton-ma-usa/

The church in Boston, Mass
http://churchinboston.org

The church in Dunn Loring, VA.
http://churchindunnloring.org

Let's see if Divegeester has the guts to tell the world who are the believers he has come together with. Or will we be treated to a barrage of excuses for his concealment.

@divegeester

From the SAME PUBLICATION a paragraph or so below your paste.
https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/salvation/

In Christ God has provided for man a full and complete salvation. This full salvation includes our whole being: spirit, soul, and body. In God’s salvation, man’s spirit is regenerated, his soul is being transformed, and his body will be transfigured.

In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.

Eternal salvation is by grace through faith, not by our works.

In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.

Once a person has been saved, he may have both the assurance of salvation and the security of salvation. Once we are saved, we are saved forever.

Now who have you met with in the last 30 years and what is their statement of faith or "in order to be saved" belief?

@sonship said

Perhaps you were right to be ashamed of this

Talk about ashamed Divegeester ?

Watch this.

Divegeester, place the websites of any group of worshippers you have met with in the last 30 years.
Then we may examine their statement's of faith or outline of beliefs.

If you refuse, why should we not figure that behind all your excuses is some kind ...[text shortened]... ievers he has come together with. Or will we be treated to a barrage of excuses for his concealment.

Tumbleweeds...

@sonship said

Perhaps you were right to be ashamed of this

Talk about ashamed Divegeester ?

Watch this.

Divegeester, place the websites of any group of worshippers you have met with in the last 30 years.
Then we may examine their statement's of faith or outline of beliefs.

If you refuse, why should we not figure that behind all your excuses is some kind ...[text shortened]... ievers he has come together with. Or will we be treated to a barrage of excuses for his concealment.

In my OP I’m calling you out. You STILL haven’t answered my question in the OP.

@suzianne said
Tumbleweeds...

The OP is dated the 29th of November. Since then you have not once commented about sonship’s comedic avoidance of a question about his strange beliefs.

Sonship believes in aliens on other planets observing Hell.
He believes that the unsaved will be tortutured alive by Jesus and the aliens will see this and be warned
He believes that if a person doesn’t believe in the triune God as described in the OP that the person, Christian or not, cannot be saved and will therefore be tortured for eternity by Jesus
He believes that these lost souls “glorify Jesus in their endless woe”

He refuses to answer questions relating to these strange beliefs and yet you NEVER, not even once, challenge him on it. You never post “tumbleweed” when he ducks and dodges out of debate.

Why is that suzianne?

@sonship said
@divegeester

Don't let me know when you graduate from a gutless troll. It's likely to never be.

You "call me out" and then slink away into your self delusions of grandeur.

“Slink away” “gutless troll” I’m travelling with work Sonship.

The OP awaits your legendary posting bravery. What I expect is a load of convoluted waffle and obfuscation.