Bible translations, "Satan", and divisiveness

@philokalia said

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

And this is where proper faith becomes important.

of course, to never do works is wrong, because works are the fruit of faith, but proper belief is vital to salvation.

You kno ...[text shortened]... m God. What really matters is the free will we have, how we use it, and how we choose to believe. ^^

You would find your interpretations only in your church handbook.

Jesus said to never do good works leads to damnation and good works and righteousness leads to eternal life.

Therefore there is something wrong with your interpretation of Paul's writing.

@rajk999 said
You would find your interpretations only in your church handbook.

Jesus said to never do good works leads to damnation and good works and righteousness leads to eternal life.

Therefore there is something wrong with your interpretation of Paul's writing.

So how should "For by grace you have been saved through faith" be interpreted?

What was St. Paul trying to say there?

@philokalia said
So how should "For by grace you have been saved through faith" be interpreted?

What was St. Paul trying to say there?

You figure that out. Jesus did not say that.

What did Paul say a couple chapters later in Ephesians about who inherits the kingdom of God?

Are the saved by grace Christians in the kingdom?

Philokalia, do you think a person can come to believe in Jesus by themselves by reading the Bible and do so without the "Nicene Creed"?

@philokalia said
I wouldn't compare them.

But you just did “compare them”, stop wriggling.

In your reply to FMFs OP on the previous page you said to him:

“What is more divisive is kind of a silly question here because no one should be concerned with that.

So what exactly is “more divisive” than what??

@philokalia said
Is it divisive to ask the whole of Christians on the forum to attack another Christian, or say that they are hypocrites?

But no one has asked anyone to attack anyone, you are making it up. You do understand that this is a debate forum and not a Christian club of some sort.

@philokalia said
They believe in the Bible and in Jesus. I appreciate that and love them. We are brothers and sisters in a lot of ways.

How can you be a brother to another Christian “in a lot of ways”?

You are either a brother or you are not.

@rajk999 said
You figure that out. Jesus did not say that.

What did Paul say a couple chapters later in Ephesians about who inherits the kingdom of God?

Are the saved by grace Christians in the kingdom?

Oh, so we are supposed to believe in Christ... but we are not supposed to believe in St. Paul.

So how can we accept the Gospels that were recorded for us as legitimate, if we are to be suspect of what St. Paul stated there?

@philokalia said
Um, I think that people who are Protestant or catholic are not theologically correct and should convert, and I encourage them to that end, but if they do not wish to convert I would prefer to celebrate with them what they do have, which is a lot.

Why do Christians who are not of your sect need to “convert”? Convert to what? They are already Christians, they are already saved aren’t they?

If they “convert” are they upgraded to Christianity 2.1 or something?

@philokalia said
And we are to love the good and to hate evil.

And so when a Christian denies basic doctrines, we should speak out against them and point out their error because these distortions are costly and destructive to who we are.

Does this include speaking out against Christians who tell us that they are continuing to fornicate and that it is acceptable?

@fmf said
Philokalia, do you think a person can come to believe in Jesus by themselves by reading the Bible and do so without the "Nicene Creed"?

This isn't the right question.

The Nicene creed is a statement of the basic teachings of the Bible to prevent heresy.

The right question would be something like is it possible to be a Bible-believing Christian or a Christian at all while rejecting the Nicene creed.

For it is possible for someone to have not been familiar with the Nicene creed to believe in the contents of the Nicene creed simply through having read the Bible. Yet, this is also not going to be applicable to 99% of cases because of the fact that there will be a Christian community near them that has the Nicene creed and the theological understanding of their priest or minister.

@philokalia said
And this is where proper faith becomes important.
of course, to never do works is wrong, because works are the fruit of faith, but proper belief is vital to salvation.

What is “proper faith”? What is “proper belief”? Why is it “vital to salvation” ? In what way?

What on earth are you on about?

@philokalia said
This isn't the right question.

So your answer to:

Do you think a person can come to believe in Jesus by themselves by reading the Bible and do so without the "Nicene Creed"?

...is "Yes", right?

@fmf said
So your answer to:

Do you think a person can come to believe in Jesus by themselves by reading the Bible and do so without the "Nicene Creed"?

...is "Yes", right?

People can become Christians through a large variety of means that don't involve the Nicene creed, yes, lol.

However, anyone who denies the contexts of the Nicene creed is not a Christian in the conventional sense of the word.

These are very different topics.

@philokalia said
However, anyone who denies the contexts of the Nicene creed is not a Christian in the conventional sense of the word.

What is “a Christian in the conventional sense of the word” compared to a Christian in an unconventional sense of the word?