Originally posted by sonshipWhere is his website? Seriously, what use is a fact checker if he doesn't publish the results? Its not that the press doesn't 'realize that God is the ultimate and infallible Fact Checker', its that even if he was, it would be totally irrelevant as nobody has a way of using that information.
I've been thinking to myself "Poor, poor mankind. This fact checking in only what faulty man can do. Don't they realize that God is the ultimate and infallible Fact Checker ?"
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk"If something is wrong simply because people have decided that it is wrong, then surely that opens up the ability to rationally justify almost anything. Does it not?"
If something is wrong simply because people have decided that it is wrong, then surely that opens up the ability to rationally justify almost anything. Does it not?
I'm not sure you understand what it means for a justification to be rational, it only means that the justification follows logically from the premises. That's exactly what people do when they rationally justify things on the basis that "If this book I believe is holy truth says God said it's wrong, then it's wrong." If you accept the premises, the rational conclusions follow. It all depends on which book you have in your hand, doesn't it?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThe two things are not exclusive - if pressed, I would probably say that I am agnostic in outlook (I don't like to use the term however because I feel it is a rather arrogant stance to take). Further to that, since I lack belief in a god or gods, I am also an atheist.
According to B.R. your description of yourself is more fitting of an agnostic than an atheist.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by twhitehead
Where is his website?
He doesn't need a website.
That's your assumption - God's need for a website and maybe a Google account.
God can record the facts of our lives without Netscape or Yahoo or a website.
Seriously, what use is a fact checker if he doesn't publish the results?
There are some facts recorded in man's conscience. God can bring them out at the appropriate time.
Do you really think the Creator who keeps tracks of the billions of laws of nature in all its details needs a database ?
We get a glimpse of this extensive knowledge when the Son of God said that the very hairs on our head were numbered.
" But even the hairs of your head have all been numbered. ( Luke 12:7a)
Now you can disbelieve this is your wish.
I believe it and teach that God's knowledge of all details mechanical or moral is omniscient.
I have found that his principle not only works against men but also for men and on their behalf. It is not all negative - that God knows all the facts. It can also be very comforting at times to know that God knows.
There is no chapter telling us that Jesus took the disciples aside and described to them the periodic table of chemistry. But we get the same idea about God when Jesus tells us that the very hairs on our heads are all numbered ( if your not bald ).
So you pluck out a hair from your scalp. Hold it. And realize that Someone knows the specific number of that hair you hold in your hand. And you don't think He'll remember what was DONE to you? Or you think He won't remember your words and your deeds to the most minute level ?
I think He will remember. Furthermore it may be that God will play it back before you and I to remind us.
This is not only a ominous matter. It also can be a comforting matter. It is not just a one angled matter. You should realize that details long forgotten by you are not by God.
It could also be that in some area you blame yourself when perhaps one day God will show you that, actually, you blame yourself unfairly.
IE. "Well, THIS is what actually happened. You just were not aware of it. But I was."
I believe He knows all the facts. Scoff at it is your choose.
Its not that the press doesn't 'realize that God is the ultimate and infallible Fact Checker', its that even if he was, it would be totally irrelevant as nobody has a way of using that information.
Nonsense to my experience. Just the other week I lost car keys to my father's car. I checked my pockets. I checked waste paper baskets. I checked high and low. I spent hours in anxiety looking for those keys. There was only ONE set of keys.
Check pockets again a third time. Checked here and there. I am not lying to you.
I am a Christian. God is PRACTICAL to me.
I stopped my anxiety and thanked God with praises -
"Lord Jesus, I thankyou that You know where those keys are. Lord You know everything. I rest in You. If You desire You can reveal to me where those keys are. I just stop to praise You Lord that You are the One who knows. Amen. And thankyou Lord."
After I had searched high and low and in places mutliple times, I prayed along those lines with thanksgiving. I got rest in my heart. And I went to bed in a restful spirit.
The next morning I reached for my pants. And in the back pocket was those keys. Now I was shocked because my pants pocket was the very FIRST place I checked. And I patted and checked those pants pockets multiple times the previous day. HOW could they simply been missed by me.
I thank God and I took the lesson. Many times we just need God to open our eyes.
We should not be so proud.
Now I have written this little true testimony not for your sake twhitehead. I expect you to trash my precious experience with your unbelief. So be it. But I do write it for the sake of some other readers who might be encouraged.
And I have had many such encouraging experiences as a lover of Christ.
Anyway, God knows all the facts.
Originally posted by sonshipStop playing dumb. I was very clear that I was talking about him publishing his results not collecting them via a website.
He doesn't need a website.
That's your assumption - God's need for a website and maybe a Google account.
God can record the facts of our lives without Netscape or Yahoo or a website.
There are some facts recorded in man's conscience. God can bring them out at the appropriate time.
But we are talking about the US elections and the need to fact check politicians statements so we can choose who to vote for. When is the appropriate time that God will 'bring them out'? The day before the election?
Do you really think the Creator who keeps tracks of the billions of laws of nature in all its details needs a database ?
Try and keep up. At no point did I even suggest he would have difficulty storing the results.
The next morning I reached for my pants. And in the back pocket was those keys.
And you believe God moved them from where ever you lost them and put them there?
Now I was shocked because my pants pocket was the very FIRST place I checked. And I patted and checked those pants pockets multiple times the previous day. HOW could they simply been missed by me.
Good question.
So either God blinded you yesterday. Or he moves things around just to help out Christians that pray.
Many times we just need God to open our eyes.
Or just open them yourself. Seriously, if you need God to find your keys for you, you should consider hiring an assistant.
Now I have written this little true testimony not for your sake twhitehead. I expect you to trash my precious experience with your unbelief.
I will not trash it with my 'unbelief' but with your lack of sense.
Be honest now: do you, or do you not, believe God moved your keys?
Anyway, God knows all the facts.
Including the fact that you spent a very lengthy post and didn't address the post you were responding to in any meaningful way.
My point, as I am sure you are very well aware, is that the purpose of fact checking politicians is so that we can see whether they are honest or whether or not they know the facts. God keeping a secret tally is of no use in this regard. Now if he submits reports of Clinton and Trumps latest stats to you, then well and good, but I rather suspect that you will deny this. If not, please let us know what God says about their stats.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by twhitehead
Stop playing dumb. I was very clear that I was talking about him publishing his results not collecting them via a website.
I don't think you're playing dumb. I think what you wrote is really dumb.
But we are talking about the US elections and the need to fact check politicians statements so we can choose who to vote for.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I am not talking about God participating in political elections.
I am talking about what we may say as to compared to the facts that God knows on some future time of judgment.
You understand that and are trying to force my comparison of human fact checking to be a point about God participating in political elections.
When is the appropriate time that God will 'bring them out'? The day before the election?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, on a day of judgment as Christ taught the world.
My comparison had nothing to do with God involving Himself with political elections.
I can't believe that you didn't understand me to refering to the review of FACTS in "the day which God shall judge the secrets of men according to my Gospel through Jesus Christ" (Rom. 2:15)
God will judge the secrets of men, That is not the public appearance they trot out before the world in a medium like this. That is the the facts of who they really are and what they have really practiced.
The Facts of what they said and did as Jesus predicted -
" And I say to you that every idle word which men shall speak, they will render an account concerning it in the day of judgment. For by your words you shall be justified and by your words you shall be condemned." (Matt. 36,37)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
We are extremely eloquent when it comes to criticizing others. The day will come when we will turn that eloquence around before God and use our two lips to criticize ourselves. God will uncover the FACTS of what we have done and what we have said.
I don't consider it a joke. This governs me. You may find this unbelievable.
It is a life governing matter to me.
No, I am not speaking of political fact checking done by God for election day.
No, i am not meaning that.
Probably no one misunderstood this except you.
Do you really think the Creator who keeps tracks of the billions of laws of nature in all its details needs a database ?
Try and keep up. At no point did I even suggest he would have difficulty storing the results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am keeping up fine.
You're are falling behind and purposely.
First rule of Atheism - Always be very clever.
So either God blinded you yesterday. Or he moves things around just to help out Christians that pray.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He humbled me by showing me that it is easy for me to simply miss something.
And He again showed me how blessed it is to depend on my heavenly Father in everything.
And I realize that if God doesn't sometime open a man's eyes he simply cannot find the truth.
No doubt some will protest that this is not fair.
But is wild pride against God fair ?
Many times we just need God to open our eyes.
Or just open them yourself. Seriously, if you need God to find your keys for you, you should consider hiring an assistant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You should consider not being so clever. You're not getting any younger you know.
Don't brag that your so sassy against God today.
And you missed the details of my little experience. I emphasized that I had checked again and again my pocket as the very first and obvious place to look. I got out of the cat and locked it. So I knew that I had to have brought them into the house.
Logically my pants were the most OBVIOUS place to check, and rechech, and re-re-check.
You miss everything. Half the problem is anxiety.
"Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. And all these things will be added to you."
You missed that I overcame the anxiety, the worry, the fearfulness. I slept in TRUST to God. God honored that.
It was a little lesson that I well needed.
You're arrogant and too proud to think you need God.
You didn't make yourself. And there are plenty of things that you do not maintain about yourself. I don't want to live as you do - arrogant, atheistic, unthankful and too proud to depend on God.
Every life is dependent.
And man too, the crown of creation, is dependent upon His Maker.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
If man was not dependent Jesus Christ would never have come.
And this marvelous and astounding man was dependent upon His Father.
He showed that dependence on God was powerful and glorious.
Anyway, I was speaking of God as knowing all the things concerning us.
You too, even though you don't believe in God.
I will not trash it with my 'unbelief' but with your lack of sense.
Be honest now: do you, or do you not, believe God moved your keys?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You'll try but will not be able to.
I do not think God moved the keys at all. They were always there in my pocket. This was a lesson, I feel, to humble me to see that self trust in my own diligence may be misleading.
But it was also a lesson on being at peace in trusting God.
We can overcome the big problem of anxiety.
Anxiety is the drive shaft of the whole world.
We have much worry because we consider what our own resources can do.
While we are to fulfill our responsibility we also should trust in God.
No, the keys were not miraculously moved around. Rather self trust and anxiety were exposed in contrast to trust in my heavenly Father and finding peace that He cares and He knows and He can guide.
Including the fact that you spent a very lengthy post and didn't address the post you
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
False accusation. I brought up the subject of God as the omniscient One who knows all the facts. And my testimony added to that subject matter.
That you play stupid and attempt to make it a political discussion or a boast that my trust in God is a foolish thing is your foolish reaction. I stand by every word of what I wrote and would alter nothing.
My point, as I am sure you are very well aware, is that the purpose of fact checking politicians is so that we can see whether they are honest or whether or not they know the facts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So God has warned us beforehand of honesty,
The warning of His complete knowledge is given to incentive us to make confession of those things we think nobody knows about. The teaching of His complete knowledge is a part of realizing our lives are in His hands. And we need the Savior and the Lord of love - Jesus Christ.
Beforehand, BEFORE the day of judgment, we have been made aware that nothing is hidden from the eyes with Whom we have to do.
You can put up a good image before men.
But the real situation is known by God.
This is good news to me if not to you. This also includes that He knows our deepest needs and not just the obvious outward faults.
God keeping a secret tally is of no use in this regard.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It not a "secret tally" if one confesses his sins as he become aware of them.
This is another reason we are taught of God's extensive knowledge. This is that we may keep short accounts and confess our sins so that we may receive more grace to live in oneness with the Spirit of Jesus.
You have a completely wrong headed understanding if you think God delights to hit you with surprises that He secretly held from you. He delights that you would be enlightened from within and clear up things in confession as soon as you become aware of them.
You're attempting cleverness and only exposing how miserably you understand what it is to be a son of God and live as Christ lived.
You want to twist every matter of living in oneness with God to a caricature of your own design to rationalize it is better to live without God.
Now if he submits reports of Clinton and Trumps latest stats to you, then well and good, but I rather suspect that you will deny this. If not, please let us know what God says about their stats.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give it up wise guy. And don't put any stock in "facts" that are not true.
Originally posted by twhiteheadIf y'all are gonna talk about me without me being present, the least you do is spell my name right.
Suzzianne would probably pass as agnostic. She believes Gods existence cannot be proven.
Originally posted by sonship
How many people on this Forum think poster Suzzianne is an agnostic ?
Originally posted by sonshipApparently because you chose not to read it.
I don't think you're playing dumb. I think what you wrote is really dumb.
I am not talking about God participating in political elections.
Well then your post was far from clear and doesn't make a lot of sense.
You understand that and are trying to force my comparison of human fact checking to be a point about God participating in political elections.
No, I clearly did not understand that, and it is not clear from your original post. My response, however, was quite clear, yet you chose to misunderstand it.
Your original post appeared to suggest that humans are not aware of Gods fact checking abilities, and so instead resort to fact checking organisations and their websites.
I find it interesting that you seem to think you are the only person on the planet 'in the know'.
Originally posted by sonshipI still don't get what the whole point of the story is supposed to be. Did God hide the keys from you? Did he deliberately cause you not to find them so as to teach you a lesson? Yet you came away from it putting your trust in the very being that hid the keys from you in the first place?
I do not think God moved the keys at all. They were always there in my pocket. This was a lesson, I feel, to humble me to see that self trust in my own diligence may be misleading.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by twhiteheadI am not interested how you can take the example, spin it around, and utilize it to show how bad God would be. I know you can creatively manipulate any example to turn it into an accusation against the character of God.
Someone who loved you, a mother or father, surely, at sometime used a situation to educate you. They did not intervene perhaps as you would EXPECT them to. Rather they delayed an intervention or timed an intervention or waiting for the appropriate time to intervene.
Along the maturation and development of spiritual life God teaches the willing lessons.
He is trying to conform men to the image of Christ.
The aim of this discipline or education is not to devalue human worth but to enhance it - that is to conform it to the perfect man - Jesus. That is to reproduce many sons to be like THE Son.
That is a life which overcomes the world.
I still don't get what the whole point of the story is supposed to be.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Translation: " I must see to it that nothing in this story makes good sense, thus assuring that life without God is more normal."
Did God hide the keys from you?
-----------------------------------------------
Perhaps. What was made known was more important that what was hidden.
We can easily be let down by self confidence and fretting with anxiety when simple asking and trust in the heavenly Father is more effective.
"Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him." (Proverbs 26:12)
Did he deliberately cause you not to find them so as to teach you a lesson?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think the lessons in such experiences have to me one. They can be more than one. And I have given God the ground in my life to educate me in that manner.
That is called being consecrated to God. I give Him permission to educate me for my growth.
So one of the lessons was to learn something of "You have not because you ask not."
I did not have to undego 16 hours of anxiety, fretting, worry, and murmuring in a bad mood, effecting others in the home. I could have immediately simply asked God to help me find those keys.
Eventually i did that and rested. But that was after hours of fretting and anxiety.
So there was not only a lesson there in simply asking the One who cares for my legitimate needs. There was also a lesson there in not wasting time.
Our days are numbered you know?
Yet you came away from it putting your trust in the very being that hid the keys from you in the first place?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I absolutely come away with more trust in God.
If you have a better way to live, you go ahead and do that.
Me? I don't WANT to be different from Jesus.
I want to be the SAME as Jesus.
Originally posted by sonshipSo you figure somehow YOU are worthy of some teleportation trick by your god while millions of infants die from starvation or cancer, never to receive help from your god.Where is his website?
He doesn't need a website.
That's your assumption - God's need for a website and maybe a Google account.
God can record the facts of our lives without Netscape or Yahoo or a website.
Seriously, what use is a fact checker if he doesn't publish the results?
There are some facts re ...[text shortened]... e had many such encouraging experiences as a lover of Christ.
Anyway, God knows all the facts.
Don't you see that as just the slightest but arrogant? A god would single YOU out and ignore real suffering?