time travel using entanglement

@deepthought said
When we send a signal using light an electron somewhere changes energy level and emits a photon, that photon is then absorbed by an electron in a detector or rod or cone cell or some such. That signalling requires an intermediary in the form of a photon.

In the case of the collapse of the wavefunction of two entangled particles there isn't an intermediary. The signal ...[text shortened]... ard barrier for causal influences, but not necessarily a barrier to correlation enforcing influence.

You're on the right track , so please attempt to incorporate my "other dimensions" theory..TY

@deepthought said
When we send a signal using light an electron somewhere changes energy level and emits a photon, that photon is then absorbed by an electron in a detector or rod or cone cell or some such. That signalling requires an intermediary in the form of a photon.

In the case of the collapse of the wavefunction of two entangled particles there isn't an intermediary. The signal ...[text shortened]... ard barrier for causal influences, but not necessarily a barrier to correlation enforcing influence.

It might be possible?
I doubt it. If you could accomplish that you could become famous.

@Metal-Brain
Why do you doubt it?

@sonhouse said
@Metal-Brain
Why do you doubt it?

Its both amusing and completely appalling how an ignorant layperson can be so arrogantly deluded as to actually think he knows better than the experts, especially when those experts are generally far smarter than he, or for that matter I, could ever be, and certainly on not merely in just terms of their quantity of knowledge.
Sadly this appallingly appears to be an extremely common phenomenon with lots of examples of people with that disgusting loathsome condition. There really should be a special name for it; ANYONE; it there?

@sonhouse said
@Metal-Brain
Why do you doubt it?

In fairness that was relatively wild speculation on my part, I doubt it's possible. You'd need some mechanism for the physical wavefunction to change along an entire time-slice instantaneously, without affecting physically measurable quantities beyond ensuring that eigenstates are selected consistently and without breaking Lorentz covariance. It's not obvious it's possible.

The Copenhagen Interpretation deals with this by denying the reality of the wavefunction, which is why I specified "physical wavefunction" above. The problem is that reciting the mantra: "Correlation does not entail causation.", when someone expresses discomfort with the explanation doesn't really cut it. At least to my mind, I find the interpretation unsatisfactory. The Many Worlds Interpretation deals with it by having the experimenter going into a superposition of states, with the different branches of the superposition unaware of each other. At first this seems to be the correct interpretation, but I'm not happy with the plethora of realities; which must include ones where every now and again something such as pink elephants appear and dance around before dissolving away, and there is no good reason why it should not be this one.

@deepthought said
In fairness that was relatively wild speculation on my part,

I could see that but, in fairness to you, its obvious that you were not pretending it was anything other than speculation and I believe you are at least qualified to make that kind of wild speculation on that subject matter. In contrast, MB certainly wouldn't ever be. Not even I would ever be if its about physics but if its about either AI or data-processing-related then, just perhaps.
Sometimes an expert needs to make a wild speculation to then finally make a real breakthrough and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, I once did just that myself and I will explain that in my book. But, at least when it comes to science, I would say one should always confine one's wild speculations only to within one's own particular area of expertise and never outside it.

@deepthought said
In fairness that was relatively wild speculation on my part, I doubt it's possible. You'd need some mechanism for the physical wavefunction to change along an entire time-slice instantaneously, without affecting physically measurable quantities beyond ensuring that eigenstates are selected consistently and without breaking Lorentz covariance. It's not obvious it's possi ...[text shortened]... and dance around before dissolving away, and there is no good reason why it should not be this one.

The problem is that reciting the mantra: "Correlation does not entail causation.", when someone expresses discomfort with the explanation doesn't really cut it. At least to my mind, I find the interpretation unsatisfactory.

Same here. The problem I have with this interpretation is that it appears to be legalistic word play designed to avoid a problem by talking around it. QE can be seen as a causeless effect by simply saying "correlation does not entail causation". However, this does not specifically rule out causality, but rather puts it on hold until (or unless) a cause can be determined...
so it appears causality has not been entirely ruled out, but for the time being has been sidelined.

Anywho, this is my take on why clever semantics was employed to avoid the question of causality. It doesn't make much sense to say that because we cannot (at this time) pinpoint or identity a cause this means there is no cause.

Anywho, this is my take on why clever semantics was employed to avoid the question of causality. It doesn't make much sense to say that because we cannot (at this time) pinpoint or identity a cause this means there is no cause.

exactly right LL.. seems like you agree with me that there can be entanglement without information !

@ogb
So far that is what we see, no way to get information from A to B with QE. Maybe in a hundred years of science advances we can do it but so far, no joy.

@sonhouse said
@ogb
So far that is what we see, no way to get information from A to B with QE. Maybe in a hundred years of science advances we can do it but so far, no joy.

The sad part is if it turns out there is some fifth dimensional point or plane that could account for instantaneous influence, it may never be discovered or proven to exist. Science has its limits insofar as our own abilities are limited, and at some point speculation and theories could end up being the only thing left we have to work with.

Take tachyons, for example. How would it be possible in forward time to detect something that is traveling (timewise) in the opposite direction?

@ogb said
exactly right LL.. seems like you agree with me that there can be entanglement without information !

This morning I thought of a better quantum entanglement analogy (playing cards rather than door knobs) with the indisputably indispensable help of a brain lubricant commonly known in layman circles as coffee. Regrettably, one of the side effects of this wondrous compound is excessive wordiness although this can easily enough be delt with by somewhat time consuming and vigilant attention to editing, and then more editing followed by adding bits and pieces to fill in the inevitable gaps of thought in order to avoid confusion due to the appearance of scattered and disconnected thoughts and... and like that, what I just said.
Another side effect are sudden urges to visit the bathroom with great and urgent frequency so it will be awhile before I actually get to the analogy which I'm sure you will all agree better represents...

aw crap, waited too long... again 😦

@lemon-lime
Easy come easy go......

@venda said
Disregarding the Grandmother paradox for a second (where they say you can't travel back in time because you could murder your own Grandmother and therefor not exist),think about ufo and alien sightings.
Think about all the diverse lifeforms on this insignificant little planet.
First of all why would aliens want to come here in the first place?
And then think about all the do ...[text shortened]... a coincidence?
Wouldn't a more plausible explanation be human time travellers from our own future?

why would aliens want to come here in the first place?

In spite of signing standard intergalactic confidentiality forms legally preventing me from revealing sources (and other sensitive information) I can say that aliens 1) have been here and 2) continue coming here.
And not for any of the reasons we usually imagine.

@lemon-lime said

why would aliens want to come here in the first place?

In spite of signing standard intergalactic confidentiality forms legally preventing me from revealing sources (and other sensitive information) I can say that aliens 1) have been here and 2) continue coming here.
And not for any of the reasons we usually imagine.

Apparently this time they were stocking up on toilet paper.

@lemon-lime
Tachyons were just a thought experiment, so far totally unproven to exist.