@sonhouse saidWatch the video. You need to see the details.
@Metal-Brain
Synopsis please, If I like that maybe I will watch your video. Why don't you just come out and say whatever it is you are going to push on this and get that part over with.
@Metal-Brain
I don't know who double thumbed you down but I didn't.
So Energy doesn't flow through wires.
Sounds like semantics to me, since we have known for a couple hundred years electrons flowing through conductors makes magnetic fields which by their nature go beyond the wire, that is what allows transformers and resonators and the like, all using the energy stored in the magnetic field and used at some later time.
What does this dude think he is going to change about all this? He is not for instance going to show Tesla was lying when he made his coil and such.
So what is his agenda?
@sonhouse saidI don't know of any agenda that he might have. I think you are making more out of it than there is. He just has an opinion that seems credible on the video, especially when he pointed out that an early Morse code cable had problems and there was a debate about it among scientists at that time.
@Metal-Brain
I don't know who double thumbed you down but I didn't.
So Energy doesn't flow through wires.
Sounds like semantics to me, since we have known for a couple hundred years electrons flowing through conductors makes magnetic fields which by their nature go beyond the wire, that is what allows transformers and resonators and the like, all using the energy store ...[text shortened]... t for instance going to show Tesla was lying when he made his coil and such.
So what is his agenda?
I posted this info to see if anybody disagreed with him and could make a case for him being wrong, but you didn't make logical points. Did you watch the whole video? Did you see the part about transformers?
@Metal-Brain
What I expect about early telegraphers is when a coil magnetizes a piece of iron, the iron can retain the magnetism and the clicker part sticks, due to the fact when current stops flowing, that is not the end of the story, there is magnetic energy stored in the field and when the push of the voltage stops, the magnetic field goes backwards, the coil then becomes for a brief moment, re-energized and what is called "Back EMF' current flows backwards in the coil which you don't want if you can avoid it.
So we incorporate a diode, where in normal flow, say current into on of the ports of the coil, the diode is added to the coil in parallel but in reverse so no current flows through the diode normally, but when the current stops, now back emf flows through the diode and stops pulses of energy from getting around some system or other.
Only been known for about 150 years or so.
@sonhouse saidDid you see the part about transformers?
@Metal-Brain
What I expect about early telegraphers is when a coil magnetizes a piece of iron, the iron can retain the magnetism and the clicker part sticks, due to the fact when current stops flowing, that is not the end of the story, there is magnetic energy stored in the field and when the push of the voltage stops, the magnetic field goes backwards, the coil then become ...[text shortened]... lses of energy from getting around some system or other.
Only been known for about 150 years or so.
@Metal-Brain
Tell me what I am supposed to know about transformers I don't already know. Your own words.
@sonhouse saidSo you didn't watch it. Why not?
@Metal-Brain
Tell me what I am supposed to know about transformers I don't already know. Your own words.
@metal-brain saidYou didn't understand. Sonhouse it knowledgeable as he demonstarted. You on the other hand post some video and your only argument is : watch the video. If you would have understood the theses, you would be able to fromulate a response.
So you didn't watch it. Why not?
I did watch the video and the guy is correct in that we teach our children simplified models, whcih don't encompass all knowledge. However the point is that even a weak model (like the chain that drives the wheel) is better than no knowledge at all and the magic monet when someone presses aswitch and by pure magic the light turns on...
@ponderable saidNo, you didn't understand.
You didn't understand. Sonhouse it knowledgeable as he demonstarted. You on the other hand post some video and your only argument is : watch the video. If you would have understood the theses, you would be able to fromulate a response.
I did watch the video and the guy is correct in that we teach our children simplified models, whcih don't encompass all knowledge. Howev ...[text shortened]... edge at all and the magic monet when someone presses aswitch and by pure magic the light turns on...
I never ever claimed the guy in the video was correct. I was just trying to start a dialog about it to establish who is right and who is wrong. The problem arose when sonhouse made false statements in his posts.
I can accept an opinion if it is based on facts, but he interjected falsehoods and expected a welcome mat for spewing jargon that didn't even make sense. Electrons don't drive electrons. Kenetic energy is converted into electron flow when overcoming the resistance of a magnetic field. That is what drives electrons.
An electron cannot drive another electron until the electron is driven by something. That something is a magnetic field. The electrical grid has transformers. Transformers separate the flow of electrons so they are not driving other electrons past the transformer in the way he suggested.
Tranformers create electromotive force by producing a magnetic flux. It is the magnetic field that drives the electrons past that point, not other electrons as he suggested. He needs to get his facts straight.
Did you watch the video? He brought up a thought experiment where he asked how long it would take for the electric charge to reach the light switch. Do you agree with his answer?
@Metal-Brain
I knew you were going in this direction because you NEVER post stuff like this unless you THINK you have a zinger that will refute scientific knowledge.
For one thing, if a moving electron impinges on another electron, the second electron will move because of the electric field inherent in electrons.
Whether you like it or not, electrons repel electrons and THAT gives a push to the other electron and that is all it takes, an ELECTRIC field that will accelerate or decelerate electrons.
An electron is a tiny blob of electric field and you don't get magnetic fields there unless the electron is moving, moving charges makes magnetic fields but of course we are all wrong and you think you are all 100% right.
You will be WAY over your head if you try to out logic Pon, he has a Phd in Chemistry so good luck attacking that.
@sonhouse said"Whether you like it or not, electrons repel electrons and THAT gives a push to the other electron and that is all it takes"
@Metal-Brain
I knew you were going in this direction because you NEVER post stuff like this unless you THINK you have a zinger that will refute scientific knowledge.
For one thing, if a moving electron impinges on another electron, the second electron will move because of the electric field inherent in electrons.
Whether you like it or not, electrons repel electrons ...[text shortened]... Y over your head if you try to out logic Pon, he has a Phd in Chemistry so good luck attacking that.
I never disputed that electrons repel other electrons. You need to drive the first electron for any to repel another so that is not all it takes. You are like a pool player who denies he is using a pool stick to drive the cue ball.
Furthermore, the transformers do not allow the same electrons to pass through it to repel other electrons. That is done with other electrons, not using the same electrons going through. Transformers do that using a magnetic field so when you say "that is all it takes" you are wrong.
" you THINK you have a zinger that will refute scientific knowledge"
Scientific knowledge is not perfect. It is debatable and it should be so it can be updated. Newton was a great physicist, but Einstein improved upon his work. Einstein said someone will come along and improve on his work some day.
Science is NEVER always right. Scientists disagree all of the time. What if Edison won the current war? It would have been a hug setback in science. It is a good thing Tesla refuted Edison's scientific knowledge. Wouldn't you agree?
@Metal-Brain
Tesla understood the reason for having AC Vs DC, namely wires lose X amount of VOLTAGE per mile. So if you have a wire that loses one volt out of 100 in a mile that is a 1% loss of energy that just goes to heat the wire.
So if you now go to 1000 volts, the electrons and the wire don't really know that and the wire still loses 1 volt in one mile. But now the loss is 1/10th of a percent since we now went instead of 100 to 99 volts, we went from 1000 to 999 volts.
So up that to a MILLION volts and you can see how that allows 3,000 mile power line runs with only maybe ten percent loss.
Edison I think liked the purity of DC and in fact DC is MUCH better at reducing RF interference but it takes special technology to convert DC to higher voltages to transmit down wires and back to 100 or whatever voltage is at home.
We can actually NOW make million volt DC lines if we wanted to commit to that but my guess is it would be considered too expensive.
I don't think you fully understand the relationship between electric fields and electrons.
Electric fields accel and decel electrons or any charged ion, electric fields can't acel neutral atoms like neutrons for instance, they ignore electric fields.
But electrons are mainly a bundle of compressed electric field so naturally they would kick another electron it encounters.
Magnetic fields STEER and can be MADE to accelerate ions if you HAVE to and have no other choice for the tech involved but electric fields are much easier to generate for instance, one of my power supplies was 200,000 volts and accelerated ions to really fast velocities inside of a couple of feet of acceleration.
Ions would hit the silicon substrate at a million miles an hour and that is just a TOY compared to the big guys at CERN.
@sonhouse saidIt is a good thing Tesla refuted Edison's scientific knowledge. Wouldn't you agree?
@Metal-Brain
Tesla understood the reason for having AC Vs DC, namely wires lose X amount of VOLTAGE per mile. So if you have a wire that loses one volt out of 100 in a mile that is a 1% loss of energy that just goes to heat the wire.
So if you now go to 1000 volts, the electrons and the wire don't really know that and the wire still loses 1 volt in one mile. But now the ...[text shortened]... ilicon substrate at a million miles an hour and that is just a TOY compared to the big guys at CERN.
@Metal-Brain
It was needed at that time. We cans till do high voltage DC if we want to bad enough. It would make for less RF pollution but even if you have DC going to a comp say, the comp itself produces RF noise so that can be worse than line noise.
I am a ham and have very good radios and they pick up every dam rf noise my house makes, the worse from my Samsung clothes dryer, I have to actually unplug it from the power line to get rid of that noise, very loud.