PAWN RIOT VS The Forum Move 22

22. ... Be6 23.Nxe6 fxe6 24.Bd4 (Queen move may also work)
e5 25.Be3 (25.Bf2 may be better) d5 26.exd5 Nd6 27.c5 Nf5 probably doesn't work either.

I guess the biggest problem, in the d5 lines at least, is our c5 square. That pawn push is a real killer.

I can't imagine 22. ... a6 (with the idea of Bb5) could be playable either. 23.Qb3 and a quick c3 comes to mind.

22. ... d5 23.exd5 Qg3 leaving d6 AND c7 possible for the knight.

22. ... d5 23.exd5 Qd6

Just a few interesting but probably not so good alternatives.

Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
How about 22. ... Be6 23.Nxe6 Bxc3 24.Nxc7 Rxc7 25.Kb1 Bxb2 26.Kxb2

How does black stand in this ending?

Not particularly well I imagine Paul! We can't take on c4 because we lose the a-pawn and that's not a good idea.

I think, at the moment, that your suggestion of 22...a5 might be a very useful move.
It gets it 'off prise' for a lot of the variations, and covers the b4-square which is a handy square for white in a few lines.

If white responds with 23.Rhb1, then we can go 23...Be6. The variation you gave would be much more appealing for us in this case as we can take on c4 with the rook without losing the a-pawn. (In fact, he wouldn't have Kb1 at all in this line)

I can't get 22...d5 to work particularly well either; the Rb2 has killed off a lot of the fancy tactical lines which would otherwise work.

I'll keep looking at this though....my gut feeling is that we should still be fine : )

I didn't actually mention a5, but I did look at it. 🙂

Originally posted by ptobler
any thoughts on 22...a5?

Apologies to both of you : )

I'm switching my vote to 22...a5

Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
How about 22. ... Be6 23.Nxe6 Bxc3 24.Nxc7 Rxc7 25.Kb1 Bxb2 26.Kxb2

How does black stand in this ending?

I'm sure we stand better than we do now.

Originally posted by clandarkfire
I'm sure we stand better than we do now.

Then we continue with
26............f6
27.gxf6.....Nxf6
28.Rg1......Kf7
29.Bd4......Nd7
30.Kc3.......Nb6
31.Bxb6....axb6

I think here we both have somewhat messed up pawn structures, and it is quite unclear.

I still fully support 22...d5. It's interesting that after 22...d5 23. exd5 Nd6 24. c5 Qxc5 25. Qxc5 Rxc5 Black still holds an initiative well into an ending.

The fact that there are two pieces still on the long diagonal holding the knight in place means that we earn a tempo with ...Rxd5 next. It's also quite easy for White to go wrong, eg:

26. Rb8+ Kh7 27. Rhb1? Nf5 -+

Maybe best play is 26. Rb8+ (clearing one of the pieces of the long diagonal) Kh7 27. Kb1 (clearing both off, now the knight can move) Rxd5 28. Nb3 (28. c3 e5! 29. Ne2 Bf5+ 30. Ka1 Rd3 looks nice for Black to me as well) and now since the a-pawn is hanging, it makes since to tickle the knight a little bit with 28...a5! , when I think Black still has great play.

I would hesitate to play either 22...a5 and 22...Be6 just because of the slowness factor. 22...d5 leads to good positions for Black by force, so it's easier to calculate and such, while both 22...a5 and 22...Be6 seem a little slower. 22...Be6 has the advantage of keeping queens on, but it allows White to fully coordinate his pieces and start causing problems. To me it makes the most sense to fix all of Blacks pieces (mostly the Ne8).

22... d5 23.exd5 Nd6 24.c5 Qxc5 25.Qxc5 Rxc5 26.Rc1 Rxd5 27.c3 My original idea, but I hate c3. But, hrm, Nc4 is a good follow-up to blockade that pesky pawn.

paulbuchmanfromfics asked about: 22. ... d5 23.exd5 Nd6 24.c5 Nf5 25.c6 Be8 26.Rb7 Qe5
Well, we're doing pretty good here with a queen-bishop battery and the rook not on b2 I think. But after 25.c6 white probably has much better though I'm not entirely opposed to this line. This is the most double-edged position I've seen so far.

22... d5 23.exd5 Qxc4 24.Qxc4 Rxc4 25.Rd1 Nc7 Tony's idea. I believe this is an improvement and more promising than:

22... Be6 23.Rhb1 Bxc4 24.Rb7 Qc5 25.Rb8 (Not Rd7 which is just bad. And Rxe7 we play d5 as was pointed out.)Be6 26.Rxc8 Bxc8 I don't like this line. All he has to do is trade down and we have a difficult endgame ahead.

22... a5 23.Rhb1 Be6 Probably not bad, but it will be difficult to analyze as we aren't forcing white.

22... Be6 23.Nxe6 Bxc3(Anything else is just bad.) 24.Nxc7 Rxc7 25.Kb1 Bxb2 26.Kxb2 Rxc4 27.Bxa7 Rb4+? I dunno, white can force this on us if we play Be6 and I'm not fond of it. We get the exchange back but the life is out of the position and white's king is closer to the action than our king.

As for me, I am siding with Tony to go with the planned d5. It's more forcing and we keep the initiative.

I'll try to look over 22...a5 lines, but its bound to take a while.

I am definitely leaning towards d5 as well.

I definately vote for 22. ... d5. Black's position is somewhat crowded and d5 actually opens up a square for the Knight and practically forces white to capture on d5 with his e-pawn. White's Knight is immobile for the moment and I think this will be an attention point in White's game for the moment. So what better choises do we have, except from getting our Knight back in the game.

22. ... d5 23 c4? Pd6 (cxd6 obviously loses the Q) 24 exd Qxc5 25 Qxc5 Rxc5 White's Knight is still immobile. The pawn on c2 has now become a target. The pawn on d5 is unprotected. The seventh row is guarded by the Black Knight. Possibly we can start looking for a good square to place our lightsquared Bishop on.

22. ... d5 23 exd5 Pd6 24 c5 Qxc5 25 Qxc5 Rxc5 Same position as above and the very same ideas

Before I forget. Be6 or a5 are not very good moves. Be6 makes our position worse then it already is.

22. ... Be6 23 Rh-b1 ... 24 Rb7 and Black's position becomes even more cramped and unplayable.

22. ... a5 is a little bit an off-game move. It is not really doing anything to improve Black's position and it is also not really disturbing white's plans. Black's focus should be on creating space and searching good squares to place its pieces on, while maintaining pressure on the white Knight and the backward pawn on c2.

I vote 22. ...d5

I also vote for 22...d5