Ww3

@metal-brain said
I said if a nuclear war broke out NATO obligations would fracture to some extent. Not every country is going to risk getting nuked. NATO expanding bothers him because it brings NATO nukes to Russia's doorstep. Everybody hates that. Cuban missile crisis for example. The USA hates it too. Nobody likes it.

Look at a map, nitwit. Ukraine was a non-NATO buffer, until Putin invaded it. No one was forced to join NATO; it is a voluntary organisation. Putin's invasion of Ukraine has pushed not only Ukraine, but Finland too, directly into NATO's arms. Putin himself has provoked NATO's expansion up to his Finish and Ukraininan borders.

https://www.nato.int/multi/mapgame/images/NATO-MAP.pdf

@metal-brain said
Can you point to a time Ukraine was not corrupt?
Is the corruption all Russia's fault? That seems to be what you are implying.
70% of Western weapons sent to Ukraine don’t reach troops. Ukraine is just as corrupt now if not more so and the west is rewarding Zelenskyy for it. I am sure that puppet dictator has his hands in all of it. That is his reward for being an obedi ...[text shortened]... he west is not to win the Ukraine war, it is to weaken Russia no matter how many people have to die.

ONCE MORE FIR THE THE RUSSIAN AGITPROP SCUMBAG MB.
Putins Russia invaded a sovereign nation because it thought it could and now they are getting their tin pot asses handed to them and everyone but the Kremlin and 20% of Russian citizens is really happy about it.
No red herrings about coups because if a country decides to have a coup it’s no one else’s business and certainly does not warrant a brutal invasions by a brutal regime because Russias puppet regime got dismantled in the coup with its scumbag traitor president running back to his headquarters in the Kremlin.
Putin rolled the dice and Russia lost now move on Ivan.

@metal-brain said
You are fooling yourself. In 2014 the USA overthrew the democratically elected leader of Ukraine and replaced him with a dictator. That is what led to this war. Read the letter Retired Virginia State Senator and retired Marine Col. Richard Black wrote.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/globalists-are-marching-us-relentlessly-toward-nuclear-armageddon-warns-former-senator

No the people of Ukraine overthrew a puppet regime which was taking direct orders from the Kremlin. The final straw was his refusal to sign the document beginning Ukraine’s transition into the EU which had already been agreed by the people and their reps in parliament, there was no actual coup there was an attempted coup by Putin and his puppets but the people fought that attempt into the ground at a huge cost in deaths and injuries.
Your not naive your just another scumbag Russian liar.

@shavixmir said
Damn, you are naieve.

What’s Russia’s end game in this?

The West want to financially cripple Russia, get rid of the oligarchs and bring it to the capitalist’s heel. Lots of juicy resources to be divided up into international investment.

What’s Russia’s goal?
And how achievable is it with the might of the rest of the world financing Ukraine and sanctioning Russia? ...[text shortened]... own way.
So, the chances of Western capitalism getting their way aren’t very high in the long run.

You know Putin and the oligarchs are alpha capitalists, you must have noticed this.
There is not one shred of ideological conflict here, everyone engaged in this conflict are capitalists if the highest order.
This is about imperial expansion or from a Russian perspective the re conquering of the old Russian empire, it’s as if the UK realised that holding India was really quite a good idea so let’s do it again, or France deciding “hey let’s invade England again because it worked out really well in 1066”
But neither scenario will happen because unlike Russia those other parties are not quite that deluded.
This is the Russian imperial ghost finally being exorcised, it’s not pretty, but it had to happen, no one is bringing anyone to heel and that’s the whole point of defending Ukraine.

@metal-brain said
Russia's goal is to continue to exist.
Their existence is being threatened.

If you cannot see that you are naive.

It is Putin who is threatening Russia's existence by his reckless defiance of internationally accepted boundaries and his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign neighbor. It is totally irrevelant how that sovereign neighbor's head of state came to power; the borders were fixed and Putin violated them. Ukraine would not have been in NATO if Putin hadn't invaded it; now, because of Putin's recklesness, Ukraine and Finland are on a fast-track to get in.

Putin is a fool if he thinks he can dictate to other countries what treaties and alliances they enter into.

@moonbus said
It is Putin who is threatening Russia's existence by his reckless defiance of internationally accepted boundaries and his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign neighbor. It is totally irrevelant how that sovereign neighbor's head of state came to power; the borders were fixed and Putin violated them. Ukraine would not have been in NATO if Putin hadn't invaded it; now, because of ...[text shortened]... s a fool if he thinks he can dictate to other countries what treaties and alliances they enter into.

It is Kennedy who was threatening Cuba's existence by his reckless defiance of internationally accepted boundaries and his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign neighbor. It is totally irrevelant how that sovereign neighbor's head of state came to power; the borders were fixed and Kennedy violated them. Castro would not have allowed Russia to put nukes in Cuba if Kennedy hadn't tried to invade it.

Kennedy was a fool to think he could dictate to other countries what treaties and alliances they entered into.

@metal-brain said
It is Kennedy who was threatening Cuba's existence by his reckless defiance of internationally accepted boundaries and his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign neighbor. It is totally irrevelant how that sovereign neighbor's head of state came to power; the borders were fixed and Kennedy violated them. Castro would not have allowed Russia to put nukes in Cuba if Kennedy had ...[text shortened]... s a fool to think he could dictate to other countries what treaties and alliances they entered into.

Yeah your right about Cuba so how can you be this wrong about Ukraine.
I mean apart from the obvious fact that the US famously did not invade Cuba, it used local insurgents linking up with expats and some US shady paramilitary personnel but it was never going to work because if the half hearted commitment to it.
Tell me how long was the column of US tanks that rolled into Cuba? how many missiles did the US rain down on Cuban population centres? You know your historical comparison here is ridiculous in the extreme so why bother?

@kevcvs57 said
Yeah your right about Cuba so how can you be this wrong about Ukraine.
I mean apart from the obvious fact that the US famously did not invade Cuba, it used local insurgents linking up with expats and some US shady paramilitary personnel but it was never going to work because if the half hearted commitment to it.
Tell me how long was the column of US tanks that rolled into ...[text shortened]... lation centres? You know your historical comparison here is ridiculous in the extreme so why bother?

So because the invasion failed that makes Kennedy a trustworthy guy?
I am pointing out the hypocrisy. Kennedy put nukes in Turkey. That is what started the whole thing. The USA has a history of doing this crap. The USSR gave him a taste of his own medicine and did the same in Cuba. That is how the USSR got him to pull those nukes out of Turkey. Now the USA and UK are doing it up to Russia's border. Just imagine how livid they are because the west keeps doing the same crap over again only worse.

The US, UK and France promised USSR not to expand NATO east of Germany. They were lying backstabbers.

https://multipolarista.com/2022/02/20/us-uk-france-russia-expand-nato-east-germany/

Keep on defending your lying government for betraying their word. I don't defend mine for it. That is the difference between me and you. Russia gave up a Warsaw Pact country, East Germany, yet you continue to lie and say they were trying to expand. You need history lessons. NATO is not some benign defense pact. They invaded Serbia and annexed Kosovo. NATO does not practice what they preach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact

@metal-brain said
So because the invasion failed that makes Kennedy a trustworthy guy?
I am pointing out the hypocrisy. Kennedy put nukes in Turkey. That is what started the whole thing. The USA has a history of doing this crap. The USSR gave him a taste of his own medicine and did the same in Cuba. That is how the USSR got him to pull those nukes out of Turkey. Now the USA and UK are doi ...[text shortened]... nnexed Kosovo. NATO does not practice what they preach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact

Hey idiot the Soviet Union is gone, it died because it was a really bad unsustainable idea for Russia to have to have an empire in the heart of Europe.
It’s trying to rebuild its empire and the first step is Ukraine but Europe and nato aren’t having it and Ukraine is especially not having it and they are beating Russia at every turn because they are fighting for their hearth and home whilst Russian forces are dying for someone else’s vainglorious delusions of grandeur.
They need to leave while they can and Putin needs to take the fast way down the Kremlin stairs.

@metal-brain said
So because the invasion failed that makes Kennedy a trustworthy guy?
I am pointing out the hypocrisy. Kennedy put nukes in Turkey. That is what started the whole thing. The USA has a history of doing this crap. The USSR gave him a taste of his own medicine and did the same in Cuba. That is how the USSR got him to pull those nukes out of Turkey. Now the USA and UK are doi ...[text shortened]... nnexed Kosovo. NATO does not practice what they preach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact

Awww, somebody lied. You never got over that yer mom was really the Easter Bunny. Grow up.

Russian occupation is a whole lot nastier than U.S. occupation. When the Russians were advancing through Germany, German citizens were running for the American sector. America rebuilt West Germany while Russia plundered East Germany, dismantling entire factories and shipping them back to Russia. I've spoken to former East Germans who lived under the Soviet regime; they told me that when the Russian infantry got to Germany, some of them had never seen electricity; they dismounted the electric sockets from the walls and took them back to Russia thinking they would get electricity out of them! My wife's father got out of E. Germany before the wall went up; the stories he tells ...

No one in Eastern Europe has forgotten how awful Soviet occupation was and they don't want the Russians back now.

@kevcvs57 said
You know Putin and the oligarchs are alpha capitalists, you must have noticed this.
There is not one shred of ideological conflict here, everyone engaged in this conflict are capitalists if the highest order.
This is about imperial expansion or from a Russian perspective the re conquering of the old Russian empire, it’s as if the UK realised that holding India was really q ...[text shortened]... it had to happen, no one is bringing anyone to heel and that’s the whole point of defending Ukraine.

iUNLEASH THE CONQUISTADORS!

@kevcvs57 said
Hey idiot the Soviet Union is gone, it died because it was a really bad unsustainable idea for Russia to have to have an empire in the heart of Europe.
It’s trying to rebuild its empire and the first step is Ukraine but Europe and nato aren’t having it and Ukraine is especially not having it and they are beating Russia at every turn because they are fighting for their heart ...[text shortened]... ur.
They need to leave while they can and Putin needs to take the fast way down the Kremlin stairs.

No, the CIA election meddled in Russia's election to put in their corrupt stooge Yeltsin. It was essentially a coup that didn't last and it was that corruption that led to Putin's rise to power later.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-meddling-in-1996-russian-elections-in-support-of-boris-yeltsin/5568288

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/us-agents-helped-yeltsin-break-coup-1436470.html

@moonbus said
Awww, somebody lied. You never got over that yer mom was really the Easter Bunny. Grow up.

Russian occupation is a whole lot nastier than U.S. occupation. When the Russians were advancing through Germany, German citizens were running for the American sector. America rebuilt West Germany while Russia plundered East Germany, dismantling entire factories and shipping them bac ...[text shortened]... tern Europe has forgotten how awful Soviet occupation was and they don't want the Russians back now.

Stop repeating mindless propaganda. Russia gave up East Germany in return for a promise NATO would not expand. The USA, UK and France lied and betrayed Russia. You cannot deny that fact, so you digress into hearsay nonsense. Grow up. Russia didn't betray the USA, UK and France. They betrayed Russia.

@metal-brain said
Russia didn't have much of a choice.
Ukraine was trying to join NATO because it became a puppet of the USA. Obama took over Ukraine by coup. Who crossed the Cuban border with military force in 1961?

https://rumble.com/v1krzan-ukraine-war-planned-years-ago-documents-reveal.html

So Russia had no choise than to

* cross the border in full military strength without declaring war?
* sign the Budapest memorandum, in which the Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons?

@metal-brain said
Stop repeating mindless propaganda. Russia gave up East Germany in return for a promise NATO would not expand. The USA, UK and France lied and betrayed Russia. You cannot deny that fact, so you digress into hearsay nonsense. Grow up. Russia didn't betray the USA, UK and France. They betrayed Russia.

Russia did not "give up E. Germany." E. Germany collapsed of its own internal contradictions. Russia was already broke and couldn't keep propping up the failed Communist E. German economy. Russia had no choice but to watch it go.

I know. I was there. I went to Leipzig in 1989. I knew people who had been protesting on the streets at the time.