NYT Article: Children: Just One Dose, for Now

@metal-brain said
How do you know your son was not infected in the last 6 months?
He could have been asymptomatic.

To prove infection, you need a positive test and then a negative test. So, even if he was, we could not prove it. Antibodies tests don't prove prior infection (especially in people who are vaccinated).

@sh76 said
I understand. I do think that after several months of reading the data, one ought to be able to more objectively look at the facts, but that's a fine line.

I'm against mandates. I think the COVID vaccines are great, but not airtight. They also present some risk and, in some cases, the risk/benefit analysis becomes close.

Everyone needs to look at the data and look at the f ...[text shortened]... g vaxxed because I'm afraid" I think that should be respected, whether I think it's rational or not.

Afraid of what? What other things they are putting into the vax, or long term consequences that may show up 10 or so years from now.

I fear people and their intent to do harm, not a virus.

@eladar said
Afraid of what? What other things they are putting into the vax, or long term consequences that may show up 10 or so years from now.

I fear people and their intent to do harm, not a virus.

Your life revolves around fear.
In particular, your fear of humanity.

Maybe that's why I muck around in this forum (maybe more than I should).
Free market capitalism vs Socialism debate is valid, but secondary.
But I just don't believe that humanity should be led by people who are frightened of humanity.

@sh76 said
To prove infection, you need a positive test and then a negative test. So, even if he was, we could not prove it. Antibodies tests don't prove prior infection (especially in people who are vaccinated).

"Antibodies tests don't prove prior infection"

What is your source of information?

@metal-brain said
"Antibodies tests don't prove prior infection"

What is your source of information?

I know three people who tested positive for antibodies after vaccination without prior infection.

At most, testing positive (assuming the test works) for antibodies proves:
1. prior COVID infection; OR
2. vaccination; OR
3. prior exposure or vaccination to a coronavirus the produced antibodies with enough similarity to SARS-CoV-2 antibodies to "fool" the antibodies test

@sh76 said
I know three people who tested positive for antibodies after vaccination without prior infection.

At most, testing positive (assuming the test works) for antibodies proves:
1. prior COVID infection; OR
2. vaccination; OR
3. prior exposure or vaccination to a coronavirus the produced antibodies with enough similarity to SARS-CoV-2 antibodies to "fool" the antibodies test

Once a person is vaccinated there is no need for antibody testing, but whether the antibodies are from natural infection or vaccination you still confirm some degree of immunity from covid, but not necessarily the SARS2 virus. That only comes from natural immunity.

Natural immunity is superior than gene vaccines. You are unlikely to get the virus again and spread it like vaccinated people can.

You need to clarify #3. Were you drinking when you wrote that?

@metal-brain said
You need to clarify #3. Were you drinking when you wrote that?

Of course I was drinking. 8 cups of water a day, they say. That takes a lot of time.

Okay, I'll break it down:

1. There are lots of circulating coronaviruses, not just SARS-CoV-2.
2. They all produce antibodies in reaction when they infect someone
3. Antibodies produced against one coronavirus may not be all that different from those produced against another
4. The antibodies tests we have may not be able to 100% distinguish between antibodies to one coronavirus as opposed to another

Antibodies are not segregated tools only brought out against the specific virus they were produced to fight. There's lots of cross-immunity, where antibodies produced against one virus can fight other ones.

@sh76

What percentage of unvaccinated 12 year olds who recover from covid, later get sick with covid again and die?

@eladar said
@sh76

What percentage of unvaccinated 12 year olds who recover from covid, later get sick with covid again and die?

I don't know, but I'd imagine it's either zero or a rounding error from zero.

@sh76 said
I don't know, but I'd imagine it's either zero or a rounding error from zero.

Then why would you suggest the child get a vax shot?

@sh76 said
Of course I was drinking. 8 cups of water a day, they say. That takes a lot of time.

Okay, I'll break it down:

1. There are lots of circulating coronaviruses, not just SARS-CoV-2.
2. They all produce antibodies in reaction when they infect someone
3. Antibodies produced against one coronavirus may not be all that different from those produced against another
4. The anti ...[text shortened]... t. There's lots of cross-immunity, where antibodies produced against one virus can fight other ones.

" There are lots of circulating coronaviruses, not just SARS-CoV-2"

It has been suggested that PCR tests detect other coronaviruses, not just SARS-CoV-2. That would mean the coronavirus that causes the common cold might be mistakenly counted as SARS-CoV-2. That would explain why the cold and flu is perceived as so rare this year and SARS-CoV-2 is over counted.

Can PCR tests distinguish between SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses? After all, if antibody tests cannot do that why should PCR tests be able to? If PCR tests are positive for all coronaviruses then the tests are over counting covid cases. Right?

@eladar said
Then why would you suggest the child get a vax shot?

Sh bumped question for you.

@eladar said
Then why would you suggest the child get a vax shot?

For the same reason they get flu shots: To avoid getting sick.

Possibility of death is not the only downside to getting sick.

@metal-brain said
" There are lots of circulating coronaviruses, not just SARS-CoV-2"

It has been suggested that PCR tests detect other coronaviruses, not just SARS-CoV-2. That would mean the coronavirus that causes the common cold might be mistakenly counted as SARS-CoV-2. That would explain why the cold and flu is perceived as so rare this year and SARS-CoV-2 is over counted.

Can ...[text shortened]... If PCR tests are positive for all coronaviruses then the tests are over counting covid cases. Right?

It's supposed to be able to make that distinction, but probably not 100% of the time.

@sh76 said
For the same reason they get flu shots: To avoid getting sick.

Possibility of death is not the only downside to getting sick.

They have already gotten sick with covid and likely will not get sick again.

Besides you know vaccinated people get sick.