05 Apr 21
@quackquack saidThis is an assumption that's not always true. It's not uncommon for workers who live on tips to struggle paying bills. This is a fact. Therefore, businesses should pay a minimum wage.
It does absolve restaurants from paying a minimum wage because the statute understands that people who get paid from tips already are receiving sufficient compensation and therefore they have a lower minimum.
05 Apr 21
@vivify -
1)... Businesses who expect employees to work for tips are running a scam.
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Why would you ever say that? A bartender in a casino in Las Vegas making $1000 a night in tips and no wage is called scam??? Pheeeew. 😳
@vivify -
2) If you care about cheating on taxes, go after the rich and let the incomparably poorer restaurant workers have a minimum wage.
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Not a bad concept, Viv.
05 Apr 21
@vivify saidYour view is flatly ridiculous because the system isn't broken as is. In a free market system, people get paid what they are worth. It isn't hard to fill waitress/ waiter positions because people like getting cash and not paying taxes on it. If it were difficult they would be paid more.
This is an assumption that's not always true. It's not uncommon for workers who live on tips to struggle paying bills. This is a fact. Therefore, businesses should pay a minimum wage.
05 Apr 21
@quackquack saidThis is absolutely false.
In a free market system, people get paid what they are worth.
A "free market system" is too often used by people with power and influence, to exploit others. Why do you think corporations outsource their business? Why do you think corporations like Apple use sweatshops? The people they exploit are doing no less work than factory workers in the U.S.: yet, they're getting paid far less.
You're buying into a conservative lie that the poor are simply not hard-enough workers, and therefore are worth less.
06 Apr 21
@vivify saidPeople outsource work because the price of labor in the United States is overpriced relative to the world market. It is evidence that wages are high in the United States not that we need artificial means to raise wages like minimum wage laws.
This is absolutely false.
A "free market system" is too often used by people with power and influence, to exploit others. Why do you think corporations outsource their business? Why do you think corporations like Apple use sweatshops? The people they exploit are doing no less work than factory workers in the U.S.: yet, they're getting paid far less.
You're buying ...[text shortened]... o a conservative lie that the poor are simply not hard-enough workers, and therefore are worth less.
06 Apr 21
@quackquack saidNote how you sidestep the point about corporations using sweatshops.
People outsource work because the price of labor in the United States is overpriced relative to the world market. It is evidence that wages are high in the United States not that we need artificial means to raise wages like minimum wage laws.
Businesses like Apple and Walmart show they don't care about exploiting human beings for profit. That's the reality of "free market". And it's the reality behind not giving restaurant workers minimum wage.
@quackquack saidActually it's proof that many countries are repressive and their elites and foreign allies can impose, by force and threat of force, a lower standard of living on their People.
People outsource work because the price of labor in the United States is overpriced relative to the world market. It is evidence that wages are high in the United States not that we need artificial means to raise wages like minimum wage laws.
If you got your way and American workers got their wages reduced to the level of say Cambodians, it would collapse our economy.
06 Apr 21
@no1marauder saidYou are completely wrong. American workers often demand wages above the market rate forcing firms to go to places that don't have overly demanding restrictions on employers.
Actually it's proof that many countries are repressive and their elites and foreign allies can impose, by force and threat of force, a lower standard of living on their People.
@quackquack saidLike repressive dictatorships?
You are completely wrong. American workers often demand wages above the market rate forcing firms to go to places that don't have overly demanding restrictions on employers.
There is no such thing as a "market rate" separate from the negotiating power of the parties.
Radical reduction of workers' wages (which is what you're proposing) would destroy the economy which is dependent on consumer spending.
06 Apr 21
@no1marauder saidYou are the one that is repressive to employers. Minimum wages (which you support) interfere with the abilities of the parties to negotiate and then you complain when employers find workers that don't have such outrageous demands.
Like repressive dictatorships?
There is no such thing as a "market rate" separate from the negotiating power of the parties.
@vivify saidVivify, there is no such thing as a perfect system. You bother to point out that corporations utilize sweatshops.
Note how you sidestep the point about corporations using sweatshops.
Businesses like Apple and Walmart show they don't care about exploiting human beings for profit. That's the reality of "free market". And it's the reality behind not giving restaurant workers minimum wage.
Yes, but before the sweatshop, the workers had nothing.
Now, good people like you will point these things wrong with the system out. But
how many of you offer your sweat, blood, and money to fix the problem. So who fixes it and how?
If the government forces the sweatshops to pay minimum US wage, the sweatshop will close and the workers have nothing. So...?
Look at the governments in the world that are quasi-socialist and were created in part to eliminate exploitation of the workers.
Cuba - $7,533 a year = $3.62 per hour. Really!?!? Supreme exploitation of the people and quite illegal in the US.
And I also noticed that the Cubans (and NKoreans) have a range of salaries from low, to average, to high.
But can they even do this?? I thought we were to all get the same pay?? everyone EQUAL.
Ya, ya. But this is different, it is the government doing the exploiting. Uh huh.
06 Apr 21
@quackquack saidRight wingers lost that argument 85 years ago; few people anymore think that the wealthy are being "repressed" by having to pay the extremely modest minimum wage the US has.
You are the one that is repressive to employers. Minimum wages (which you support) interfere with the abilities of the parties to negotiate and then you complain when employers find workers that don't have such outrageous demands.
06 Apr 21
@earl-of-trumps saidIt consistently amazes me that right wingers think that People had nothing until the wealthy started repressing them.
Vivify, there is no such thing as a perfect system. You bother to point out that corporations utilize sweatshops.
Yes, but before the sweatshop, the workers had nothing.
Now, good people like you will point these things wrong with the system out. But
how many of you offer your sweat, blood, and money to fix the problem. So who fixes it and how?
If the governm ...[text shortened]... veryone EQUAL.
Ya, ya. But this is different, it is the government doing the exploiting. Uh huh.
@earl-of-trumps saidRemember that the next time you skip over countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland to single out Venezuela.
Vivify, there is no such thing as a perfect system.
before the sweatshop, the workers had nothing.
Don't act like sweatshops are doing workers a favor by exploiting them . This is like feeding the homeless with scraps from your trash can.
But how many of you offer your sweat, blood, and money to fix the problem.
Saying "what are you gonna do about it" doesn't give corporations license to exploit workers. You want to discuss solutions, fine; don't continue to profit from sweatshops in the meantime.
If the government forces the sweatshops to pay minimum US wage, the sweatshop will close and the workers have nothing.
The U.S. enacted labor laws in the early 1900s that helped to eliminate sweatshop conditions, and established things like minimum wage.
And guess what? The U.S. experienced an economic boom. I'm sure there were people like you back then who tried to same tripe of saying "these people will have nothing" like you're doing now.