MLB 2011

Originally posted by no1marauder
He's higher than Sabathia in three of the 4 ratings: Gray Ink, HOF monitor and HOF standards. And he's rated the #59th best pitcher overall by the ELO Fan Rater; Sabathia is #76th.

In the 2 or so good years Sabbathia needs to get 200 wins he'll pass Gooden in all of those categories.

Originally posted by no1marauder
No it isn't. This is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stat Nerds.

What do you base your HOF decisions on other than stats?

Originally posted by sh76
In the 2 or so good years Sabbathia needs to get 200 wins he'll pass Gooden in all of those categories.

Perhaps by a small margin. But Gooden got only 3.3% of the vote; if Sabathia is judged by the same standards there's no way he gets anywhere near 75%.

Originally posted by sh76
What do you base your HOF decisions on other than stats?

See the edit. If CC plays longer, it's quite likely his ERA will rise as Gooden's did late in his career.

Originally posted by no1marauder
See the edit. If CC plays longer, it's quite likely his ERA will rise as Gooden's did late in his career.

If CC plays long enough for his ERA+ to dip to Gooden's level he'll have at least 250 wins.

Originally posted by sh76
If CC plays long enough for his ERA+ to dip to Gooden's level he'll have at least 250 wins.

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Originally posted by sh76
The difference between 11% better than league average and 24% better than league average is not terribly significant??

Sabathia has a chance to accumulate great stats but at this point his totals aren't overwhelming.

Gooden was certainly the best pitcher in his league for a while. Sabathia often is like he is this year, very good but certain not the best pitcher in his league.

Originally posted by quackquack
Sabathia has a chance to accumulate great stats but at this point his totals aren't overwhelming.

Gooden was certainly the best pitcher in his league for a while. Sabathia often is like he is this year, very good but certain not the best pitcher in his league.

Gooden was the best pitcher in baseball from some point in 1984 through some point in 1986. From 1987 through about 1990 or 1991 he was a very good pitcher, but not at the top of the league. From then on he was an average pitcher for the rest of his career. That's a good career but it's not a HOF career.

I suppose if Sabbathia retires today his career can be compared to Gooden's, but Sabbathia is not going to retire today. Unless he gets hurt, Sabbathia is a lock HOFer. Gooden will not and should not get a sniff at the HOF.

Originally posted by no1marauder
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Sabbathia is 30 years old and has 168 wins. He already has 6 seasons with an ERA+ of 130 or better (including this season). Gooden only had 2 in his career.

Originally posted by sh76
Gooden was the best pitcher in baseball from some point in 1984 through some point in 1986. From 1987 through about 1990 or 1991 he was a very good pitcher, but not at the top of the league. From then on he was an average pitcher for the rest of his career. That's a good career but it's not a HOF career.

I suppose if Sabbathia retires today his career can be gets hurt, Sabbathia is a lock HOFer. Gooden will not and should not get a sniff at the HOF.

Sabathia is a good pitcher, but "lock HOFer" is ridiculous. Is Tim Hudson a "lock HOFer" is your estimation as well? He has more wins and a better ERA+ than CC.

Originally posted by sh76
Sabbathia is 30 years old and has 168 wins. He already has 6 seasons with an ERA+ of 130 or better (including this season). Gooden only had 2 in his career.

How many 229 ERA+ seasons did Sabathia have?

Most people don't rely on such an esoteric stat as ERA+ as the sole determinant of evaluating a player's effectiveness.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Sabathia is a good pitcher, but "lock HOFer" is ridiculous. Is Tim Hudson a "lock HOFer" is your estimation as well? He has more wins and a better ERA+ than CC.

Hudson is 5 years older than CC with a history of injury. I said Sabbathia is a lock IF he stays healthy. Hudson can get in if he has another 4 or 5 good seasons, but that's unlikely given his age and history or injury.

Originally posted by no1marauder
How many 229 ERA+ seasons did Sabathia have?

Most people don't rely on such an esoteric stat as ERA+ as the sole determinant of evaluating a player's effectiveness.

Gooden's 1985 was one of the great years of all time, I agree with that. But one year does not a HOF career make.

If Gooden is most comparable to one Yankee pitcher in recent history, it's Ron Guidry (who also had one all time great season), and he didn't get a sniff at the HOF either.

As for ERA+, I can't think of a single stat that's better.

Originally posted by sh76
Hudson is 5 years older than CC with a history of injury. I said Sabbathia is a lock IF he stays healthy. Hudson can get in if he has another 4 or 5 good seasons, but that's unlikely given his age and history or injury.

Hudson hasn't missed a start in the last two seasons. Say he gets to 225 wins and his ERA+ ends at 120 or so; should he get in the HOF?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Hudson hasn't missed a start in the last two seasons. Say he gets to 225 wins and his ERA+ ends at 120 or so; should he get in the HOF?

It seems that if we use the same standards we used in the past Hudson would not even be close.

Hudson's a three time all star who once lead the league in wins (his only season with over 17 wins) and has never lead the league in ERA. His only year in the top 3 in Cy Young voting he had a 4.14 ERA. I'd suggest his totals are way short. His best year is far from a year for the ages.