Zoroaster-Judaism

@fmf said
Forgive the attention to detail, but it sounds like your knowledge of Zoroastrianism may have impetigo.

Quite possibly! 😲

Isn't that contagious?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Quite possibly! 😲

Isn't that contagious?

Zoroastrianism or impetigo?

@fmf said
Zoroastrianism or impetigo?

I believe you can't have one without the other.

"Doctor, I have these sores on my skin."
"Take this cream and apply three times a day. Oh, and pick up a leaflet on Zoroastrianism on your way out."

@ghost-of-a-duke said
My knowledge of Zoroastrianism is rather patchy. (Perhaps 'dusty' is a better description). There is certainly archeological evidence that places the religion in the alleged time period (around 3500 - 4000 years ago) which would make it the oldest monotheistic religion. There is also no question that the religion he (Zoroaster) presented was monotheistic in nature, re ...[text shortened]... e to look at some of its key beliefs of one God, judgment day and the like to see this was the case.

I still believe that the argument of "which came first" has evidence either way. I said that modern Judaism is 3500 years old (well, 3200 to 3500 depending on your dating) so Abraham goes back considerably farther than that. And Zoroaster may indeed have been presenting a monotheistic religion, as most sources have him living much later (c. 1400 years ago). I take your claim that Zoroastrianism is older than the Hebrew religion to be inconclusive. This is why I was asking what this claim is based on.

@suzianne said
I still believe that the argument of "which came first" has evidence either way. I said that modern Judaism is 3500 years old (well, 3200 to 3500 depending on your dating) so Abraham goes back considerably farther than that. And Zoroaster may indeed have been presenting a monotheistic religion, as most sources have him living much later (c. 1400 years ago). I take ...[text shortened]... than the Hebrew religion to be inconclusive. This is why I was asking what this claim is based on.

I would have to do some digging (pardon the pun) to locate the archeological evidence. I also seem to recall that the time period was further confirmed by the comparable language to that used in the Vedas at the time.

@fmf said
What they see as the Christians' error over identity of Jesus has not affected Muslims' belief in what they see as "the one true God".

Do you perceive the Muslim Abrahamic God and the Jewish Abrahamic God differently? Surely the Islamic adoption of Jesus as the prophet who will return at the end times sets it apart from Judaism?

Rejection or adoption of Jesus as deity simply doesn't enter into the idea of "the one true God".

Are you sure?

Not a question to me but it can be answered pretty simply...

The Triune God -- our Trinitarian God -- is the only God.

Muslims and Jews worship the same God, but they misunderstand Him by rejecting the Trinity. But, it is important to note that the Jews before Christ didn't reject the Trinity -- they merely did not know of it.

It is important to distinguish the Triune God from the misconceptions about God, and thus in a sense we do not worship the same God because we simply do not believe the same things about God, right.

Yet, it is clear that they accept some of the same prophets, and that they have similar enough concepts overall to say that they worship the same God in another sense.

So it kind of depends on the context... I have no issue saying that I worship the same God as Muslims and Jews in a broad sense, but in a narrow sense, the differences are very significant. But I think that showing unity is more important than emphasizing division sometimes, and sometimes we have to be clear about where we are divided....

Perhaps it is inappropriate to give a definitive answer to this, especially in a public forum where everyone can end up being fast & loose and simultaneously trying to pin people down to very specific positions.

@sonship said
@Suzianne

Is ciassad4 a female ?

You seem to know so little about the people you debate with.

You still ask me fundamental stuff about my beliefs and we’ve been exchanging on the topics of a decade.

@fmf said
It's curious how vaingloriously oblivious sonship can be about other members of this community even after 10+ years.

Yes I was quite surprised too. Probably driven by a high desire to preach and a low ability to listen.

@sonship said
@caissad4

Yes. Consider yourself corrected.

Corrected I am.
I've been waiting for more women to participate here for a long time.

Why have you been waiting? You’ve never mentioned it.

@suzianne said
You and divegeester.
This is what this forum devolves into for you two.
An easy way to beat people up that you don't like.
Sorry, not playing your obvious game.
I thought the OP a lot more interesting than your "same old".

Why did you bring my name into your exchange with FMF?

@caissad4 said
I am not superstitious at all. In my life I have seen and experienced events which would surely send a superstitious person screaming and crying into the night.
But, unlike many, I have no problem with admitting that there is much I just do not know. I have much respect for FMF. He is a spiritual seeker, much like myself.
FMF believes that there is a historical Jesus, I think Jesus is most likely a fabrication, a myth, started 40 or 50 years after his supposed death.

All Christians I’ve met would also say they are not superstitious but are seeking spirituality.

If I suggested that your use of Caissa(d4) in your username was driven by an element of superstition you would probably deny it. However I suspect that most human beings are a little superstitious without even realising it.

@philokalia said
Not a question to me but it can be answered pretty simply...

The Triune God -- our Trinitarian God -- is the only God.

When you say “our”, who are you referring to?

@divegeester said
Why did you bring my name into your exchange with FMF?

Because you and he share the "same old, same old" argument.

Everything in this forum tends to devolve into the question of "what happens when we die" for both of you.

He does it so he can point and claim how horrible Christianity is, while you do it so you can point and claim how horrible certain posters are.

@philokalia said
Not a question to me but it can be answered pretty simply...

The Triune God -- our Trinitarian God -- is the only God.

Muslims and Jews worship the same God, but they misunderstand Him by rejecting the Trinity. But, it is important to note that the Jews before Christ didn't reject the Trinity -- they merely did not know of it.

It is important to distinguish the ...[text shortened]... n end up being fast & loose and simultaneously trying to pin people down to very specific positions.

"But, it is important to note that the Jews before Christ didn't reject the Trinity -- they merely did not know of it."


Why was that? - Could the reason be that the Trinity has no basis in scripture and is simply the result of later theological reasoning?

Surely God would have wanted His chosen people to know of his true nature and would not have been vague or ambiguous about it. Perhaps the Jews before Christ had the correct understanding of God?

@suzianne said
Because you and he share the "same old, same old" argument.

Everything in this forum tends to devolve into the question of "what happens when we die" for both of you.

He does it so he can point and claim how horrible Christianity is, while you do it so you can point and claim how horrible certain posters are.

It's interesting that you go to such lengths to dodge the question of "what happens when we die". If the answer is "horrible", then face up to it. Hsve the courage of your convictions. If the answer is not "horrible", what's the worry? Just going into a huffy hedgehog mode reflects poorly on you and your creed.