Xians: Does anyone exist who has never sinned?

Originally posted by Nemesio
So, did Jesus not sin just based on chance? Or did He have a natural
predisposition not to sin (a better understanding of God, a clearer sense
of right and wrong, &c)?

Nemesio

I don't know. Why was Abel different from Cain?

Originally posted by TheSkipper
I don't think I'm following you...what does this have to do with fallen angels?

The state they were in when they rebelled, we would have been in the
same one had God allowed us to eat from the tree of life after sin.
Kelly

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I don't know. Why was Abel different from Cain?

Because God inexplicably preferred one kind of offering over another?

You don't know if Jesus' avoiding sin was a random coincidence?

You don't think Jesus was created with a particularly good character?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
So, did Jesus not sin just based on chance? Or did He have a natural
predisposition not to sin (a better understanding of God, a clearer sense
of right and wrong, &c)?

Nemesio

I guess God was just going to keep making sons until one got it right.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I guess God was just going to keep making sons until one got it right.

It didn't work out that way, so why say it?
Kelly

Originally posted by Nemesio
Because God inexplicably preferred one kind of offering over another?

You don't know if Jesus' avoiding sin was a random coincidence?

You don't think Jesus was created with a particularly good character?

Nemesio

No, because Abel was more nobel.


God already knew what would happen. He made the promise in Genesis 3:15. Mary was the first woman humble enough to say "let it be done to me according to your word". For reasons unbeknownst to me, it took a long time for the Messiah to come.
Jesus was 100% man, only He had no sin nature. He was made like the 1st Adam, who also was sinless until later when he made the wrong choice. One of the reasons why I love Jesus is for that very reason. He felt the pain, He was tempted and tried and He came through with flying colors. He was and is my hero. He is the captain of my salvation, and God has highly exalted Him for His obedience.
To trinitarians I would say, He is the image of the living God. Therefore He is just like God His Father. If one wants know what God is like, he need look no further than Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, because Abel was more nobel.


God already knew what would happen. He made the promise in Genesis 3:15. Mary was the first woman humble enough to say "let it be done to me according to your word". For reasons unbeknownst to me, it took a long time for the Messiah to come.
Jesus was 100% man, only He had no sin nature. He was made like the 1st Ad ...[text shortened]... God His Father. If one wants know what God is like, he need look no further than Jesus Christ.

Was Adam created with a sin nature?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Was Adam created with a sin nature?

Nemesio

No. He had free will. After he disobeyed, then he had sin. This "sin" was then passed on to all men.

Rom 5:12-21
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(NKJ)

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No. He had free will. After he disobeyed, then he had sin. This "sin" was then passed on to all men.

Okay. So we have both Adam and Jesus, both born without sin nature and both born with free will.

One sinned, the other didn't. The first sinned when there was just ONE commandment. The latter
didn't sin when there were like 50 million commandments and admonitions and duties (remember,
to say that Jesus never sinned means He never did a sin of omission as well as commission).

So Adam failed in his one relatively simple duty and Jesus succeeded in what would appear to be a
monumental duty.

Why didn't God just create Adam more like Jesus?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Okay. So we have both Adam and Jesus, both born without sin nature and both born with free will.

One sinned, the other didn't. The first sinned when there was just ONE commandment. The latter
didn't sin when there were like 50 million commandments and admonitions and duties (remember,
to say that Jesus never sinned means He never did a sin of [i]omi ...[text shortened]... pear to be a
monumental duty.

Why didn't God just create Adam more like Jesus?

Nemesio

That is the million dollar question. My best guess is He did. I also think the free will part played a large role. Perhaps God, knowing what would happen, wanted us to freely choose to obey/reject Him. After all He created Lucifer as well. I do think Adam and Jesus were made the same.
Think about it, would you want forced love or free will love? When I said God "gambled" in another thread, I meant He knew many would be lost, but He would also inherit many children who loved Him.
Yes, Adam had one commandment. But Jesus had the scrolls to learn from as a child. I believe that Jesus, even as a child, was enamoured with God. He read about David, the prophesies concerning Himself, etc. He had total reverance for God, God was His life, His very breath. He was so in tune with the Father that He continually repeated, "not my will but the Father who sent me". When Satan tempted Him He fought back with scripture.
Consider these verses when studying how well Jesus knew the scriptures...

Luke 4:16-21
16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.
17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; he has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him.
21 And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
(NKJ)

Notice where He closes the scroll? These verses were from ...

Isa 61:1-2
1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good tidings to the poor; he has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn,
(NKJ)

After the acceptable year of the Lord he closed the scroll, why? Because the vengeance of our God was not here yet. It was not yet known whether the King and the Kingdom would be accepted or rejected.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That is the million dollar question. My best guess is He did. I also think the free will part played a large role. Perhaps God, knowing what would happen, wanted us to freely choose to obey/reject Him.

So, if Jesus had been in the Garden of Eden, He would have eaten the fruit?

If not, then they weren't the same.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
So, if Jesus had been in the Garden of Eden, He would have eaten the fruit?

If not, then they weren't the same.

Nemesio

But if free will was about character, wouldn't it then cease to be free will, because character would serve as a causal antecedent?

If Adam sinned freely, then the buck stopped there. And Jesus didn't, then it stopped there too.

It wasn't their characters that made them do what they did, but their freely chosen good acts that then determined their characters.

If you believe in free will, that is. I'm finding it harder to believe it makes any coherent sense.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
It wasn't their characters that made them do what they did, but their freely chosen good acts that then determined their characters.

So was Adam less free or more free than Jesus?

Something is different about the two of them, because Adam sinned and Jesus didn't.

And, if Jesus didn't sin because of that special something that's different, then why wasn't Adam
created with that special something (since God would have known that this was all going to happen,
anyway).

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
So, if Jesus had been in the Garden of Eden, He would have eaten the fruit?

If not, then they weren't the same.

Nemesio

There is also the difference in that Adam was created as a man while
Jesus took on humanity, a difference with quite a distinction.
Kelly

Originally posted by doodinthemood
he tried to kill moses. I'd think it's fair to say he has anger management problems in the OT.

I don't think you have too much of a case.

In the passage you are speaking of did you notice that He provided Moses a way out? His wife thought quickly and that saved Moses from God's judgment

It is similar to the when king Abimelech wanted to have Sarah, the wife of the prophet Abraham. God told Abimelech in a dream:

" You are now about to die because of the woman whom you have takien, for she is a man's wife. But Abimelech had not come near her, so he said, Lord, will You slay even a righteous nation? Did he himself not say to me, She is my sister? ...

And God said to him in the dream, Yes, I know that in the integrity of your heart you have done this, AND I ALSO PREVENTED YOU FROM SINNING AGAINST ME; therefore I did not let you touch her." (See Genesis 20:1-18)


Do you see God eager to execute His wrath on Abimelech? I don't. I see God providing him a way out of incurring great guilt. And I see him providing Moses a way out of suffering His anger.

I could write examples of this restraint of God's anger all day long.

But beyond this the word of God in the OT tells us plainly that God is slow to anger and long-suffering (Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 103:8; Psalm 145:8; Nahum 1:3).