Witness Lee and the Lord's Recovery Movement

@divegeester

But you do seem upset, you seem rattled in this thread by the criticism of a church behaving with cult like tendencies.

This inquiring into emotional states is just time wasting filler you employ when you have nothing else really to add.

I may wait for you have something substantial to contribute. MAYBE, I will respond to that. But given I've heard most of what you have, that's a big maybe.

You may imagine me to be as rattled and upset as you like. lol

@sonship said
This inquiring into emotional states is just time wasting filler you employ when you have nothing else really to add.

Oh, the irony. "Inquiring into emotional states" is one of your go-to 'debating points', more so than any other poster I can recall.

@FMF

There goes your memory problem again.
Sample in the last six months ?

And spiritual state is not exactly the same as emotional state. But you wouldn't know that because you don't believe in a spiritual dimension to human life.

I may have boldly inquired about someone's spiritual state. This is usually with pushing scoffing ones, if I do.

YOU read it and said "Aha! there is no spiritual part of man so he must be asking about their emotional state."

@sonship said
There goes your memory problem again.
Sample in the last six months ?

If people think I am lying about you, so be it.

@FMF

I don't want to talk about you anyway. In this thread I want to talk about what Brent Barber said.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Thus, it was desirable to publicly denounce friendships and even a spouse as mere "refuse" which must be counted loss in order to gain the Lord. Hereby, the essential bond between family and friends is severed in a cultic dedication, presumably to God.'

I categorically disagree that people who withdraw or choose not to meet with a local church are mistreated.

I know too many believers with loved ones who did not come this way who are still treated as loved ones.

Might there be some exceptions? I would be hard pressed to think of one. Brent has no confidence that Jesus lives in the churching believers.

We do not excommunicate people. like, we have any control over who has the life of the Lord within them. We have no authority to REMOVE the result of regeneration even if someone opposes the local churches.

None of my relatives meet as I do, yet. I love them and associate with them just the same on a human level.

My opinion is that Brent Barber has bitter memories of the days in which his father James Barber was so busy serving the needs of the churches. Maybe his dad offended. Maybe he did not. I don't know. Either is possible because we are all human.

Any kind of ingrained institutional mistreatment of the family Brent proposes as a tradition of the local churches has already been proved wrong in a court of law by expert witness Dr. James Maloney who was an expert on religious movements and cults.

Instances of offenses - maybe.
Standard practice such as JW's shunning of family members. NO!

In the early days of the 60s - probably more instances of offensive words may have been made by some immature ones. These are the very days Brent is suggesting were the golden times "before" this and that deviation.

In the early days I came to this website to play chess. One wiseguy beat me and insulted me for no good reason. He said in essence "You sure don't know how to play. Do you?"

Why should I make that the GENERAL characteristic and say ChessAtWork treats people like dirt when they lose?

One bad apple didn't make me condemn the whole community.

I too made a mistake in early days of timing OUT a guy and therefore beating him. He was very offended and cut off all communication further to me. I didn't realize this would cause an offense.

Point - the local churches are not a utopia. Brent, I feel, exaggerates and exacerbates some bad feelings he got from some experiences. Like he was the only one who ever heard something he didn't like ??

@sonship said
@divegeester

But you do seem upset, you seem rattled in this thread by the criticism of a church behaving with cult like tendencies.

This inquiring into emotional states is just time wasting filler you employ when you have nothing else really to add.

I may wait for you have something substantial to contribute. MAYBE, I will respond to tha ...[text shortened]... at's a big maybe.

You may imagine me to be as rattled and upset as you like. lol

I’ve been observing your posting in this forum for nearly 12 years sonship, I can tell when you are rattled, had your fur rubbed up the wrong way, feathers ruffled or yes, upset. And in this thread, you are definitely all of these.

Your approach seems to be what I’ve recently termed in mchill’s thread as utilising the “fire sand bucket” I.e. dumping metaphorical sand over the flame that is burning your ass.

By the way I haven’t forgotten that you are still avoiding my perennial question; the question which your not answering indicates that you are in a cult church.

@divegeester

I’ve been observing your posting in this forum for nearly 12 years sonship, I can tell when you are rattled, had your fur rubbed up the wrong way, feathers ruffled or yes, upset. And in this thread, you are definitely all of these.

So you have some X-Ray superman vision and BOY ... you can TELL when I am ruffled, disheveled, feathers brushed the wrong way, rattled, all that good stuff?

What do you want, a cookie ?

@sonship said
@divegeester
So you have some X-Ray superman vision and BOY ... you can TELL when I am ruffled, disheveled, feathers brushed the wrong way, rattled, all that good stuff?

Why would I need superpowers to observe what is blatantly obvious?

@sonship said
@FMF

I don't want to talk about you anyway. In this thread I want to talk about what Brent Barber said.

The OP referenced Jim Moran, not Brent Barber.

@sonship said
My opinion is that Brent Barber has bitter memories of the days in which his father James Barber was so busy serving the needs of the churches. Maybe his dad offended. Maybe he did not. I don't know. Either is possible because we are all human.

Any kind of ingrained institutional mistreatment of the family Brent proposes as a tradition of the local churches has already be ...[text shortened]... These are the very days Brent is suggesting were the golden times "before" this and that deviation.

Worth noting here that I provided several testimonials from ex-members who provided similar negative experiences. Why have you latched on to just one of them?!

@sonship said
In the early days I came to this website to play chess. One wiseguy beat me and insulted me for no good reason. He said in essence "You sure don't know how to play. Do you?"

Why should I make that the GENERAL characteristic and say ChessAtWork treats people like dirt when they lose?

One bad apple didn't make me condemn the whole community.

I too made a mistake in ...[text shortened]... ot from some experiences. Like he was the only one who ever heard something he didn't like ??

Your analogy is weak, to be honest. I have provided more than one testimonial that points to a systemic issue with your movement, and is in no way comparable to an impolite chess opponent. Here have another example:

'There is much fear talk warning of members who have left the group and met with horrible fates. I remember growing up hearing dramatic tales of the inevitable judgment of anyone who was foolish enough to leave God's eternal purpose. They had all met violent, brutal deaths. No detail of their suffering was spared as these stories were circulated to further cement and enforce permanent group membership.'

Again, are all these ex-members just making stuff up?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Your analogy is weak, to be honest. I have provided more than one testimonial that points to a systemic issue with your movement, and is in no way comparable to an impolite chess opponent. Here have another example:

'There is much fear talk warning of members who have left the group and met with horrible fates. I remember growing up hearing dramatic tales of the in ...[text shortened]... nt and enforce permanent group membership.'

Again, are all these ex-members just making stuff up?

I read it and see “Jehovah’s Witnesses”.

I sense that sonship knows what he’s into.