Why religion will never die.

Originally posted by howardgee
religion will always exist as long as there are moronic individuals like you.

Of COARSE!!!

look! it's the little green man.

Originally posted by whodey
My impression is that many on this forum seem to think that atheism will some day prevail over those of us who are religious.

I dont think it is possible to predict the future. However it is my understanding that the number of religious people in Europe is declining. I am not aware of a similar trend in America. I think to understand possible future trends we would have to look at various factors such as whether education or wealth affect religiousity, how much indocrination from parent to child takes place and how education, culture and social factors affect the transfer of religion from parent to child etc. Also it would be important to know whether the worlds people are generally going to get wealthier (not a current trend) and weather there will be no poor or uneducated people in the future.

They seem to think that man is evolving, of coarse, and will therefore one day evolve to a point of realization that religion is foolishness. Sceince will one day "explain away" the foolish beliefs that religion claims. In fact, many here already think we have arrived.
Yes man is evolving but I dont know which way.
Science "explained away" those foolish beliefs a long time ago but that has not had a significant effect on religion yet.

What atheists do not seem to realize is that religious texts are not scientific texts. For example, the story of creation is very ambiguous in relation to the science behind the event. It is like comparing apples to oranges.
Try to tell this to creationists who what to call it science.

I might as well take Darwins theories of evolution and rip them to shreds by exposing his lack of a moral substance using Biblical morality. His view of survival of the fittest is in direct conflict with the Biblical teaching that we should go out of our way to help those who are weaker and who are disinfranchized. Why should we waste our time and just let nature take its coarse? After all, we as a race will be better for it as we weed out the "weak" genes that cause us to falter.
You clearly do not understand Darwins theories at all. Survival of the fittest is a discription of how populations and genes survive and continue to exist and reproduce. It is not in any way a dictation that survival is desirable or morally correct. In addition, it is often the case that helping the weaker ones in society is survival of the fittest as societies which dont end up with less people and a lower chance of survival.

What many do not realize is that the religon will always triumph over atheism. This is due to one reason which is relevance. What I mean is what is most relevant to you. Is it knowing every last detail of your origins and the origins of the universe or is relevance found in our pursuit of God's law of love? Which will have a greater impact for you on a personal level?
In my case understanding science has a greater impact for me on a personal level than pursuing an imaginary God. I see you also havent addressed the issue of different religions but seem to assume that religion=Christianity

I might as well take Darwins theories of evolution and rip them to shreds by exposing his lack of a moral substance using Biblical morality. His view of survival of the fittest is in direct conflict with the Biblical teaching that we should go out of our way to help those who are weaker and who are disinfranchized. Why should we waste our time and just let nature take its coarse? After all, we ...[text shortened]... vent addressed the issue of different religions but seem to assume that religion=Christianity

My point was that the Bible is not a scientific text and that it makes just as much sense to bash christians using Darwins texts as it does using the Bible to bash Darwin. If I am correct, Darwin did not even touch upon morality in a direct way.

What many do not realize is that the religon will always triumph over atheism. This is due to one reason which is relevance. What I mean is what is most relevant to you. Is it knowing every last detail of your origins and the origins of the universe or is relevance found in our pursuit of God's law of love? Which will have a greater impact for you on a personal level?
In my case understan ...[text shortened]... havent addressed the issue of different religions but seem to assume that religion=Christianity[/b]

My point was that love is more relavent to human beings than head knowledge. If you do not agree that is fine. From my perspective the author of love is God. Therefore to pursue God is to fully embrace the love message. As far as me not distinguishing between different religions, I would say that I speak only from a Christian perspective and my bias often is exposed. It is my view that the major religions all portray God as a loving God and the source of all love. What makes me a Christian is the teachings of Christ. Christ taught that we should even love our enemies and those who would do us harm. When Christ was on the cross he asked his Father to forgive them because they did not understand the magnitude of what they were doing to him. For me this is the completion of the love message. As a christian you are commanded to love everyone and not just those who love you back. This type of love is supernatural and is not mortal in nature.

Originally posted by whodey
My point was that love is more relavent to human beings than head knowledge. If you do not agree that is fine. From my perspective the author of love is God. Therefore to pursue God is to fully embrace the love message. As far as me not distinguishing between different religions, I would say that I speak only from a Christian perspective and my bias often ...[text shortened]... ot just those who love you back. This type of love is supernatural and is not mortal in nature.

So when scientists insert electrodes into the brain and stimulate specific areas thus precipitating the feeling we would identify as love, they are "authors of love"? Ergo, Gods?

As a christian you are commanded to love everyone and not just those who love you back. This type of love is supernatural and is not mortal in nature.
No its not, so many people on this site have expounded on love and morality [that includes loving everyone and not just those who love you back] as the culmination of evolutionary processes. The idea that love presupposes a God is ludicrous. It is far more plausibly explicated by evolution.

Also, atheism WILL conquer theism, in fact it is already happening. Church attendence is declining and people are abandoning spirituality (and with good reason).

Originally posted by rwingett
Religion may never completely die out, but it will become less and less of a factor in society. We see this process underway most notably in Europe, where the percentage of religious people is declining precipitously. The Czech Republic, for example, is 39% atheist. That's a whopping percentage that will only go up. The countries with the highest levels of ...[text shortened]... their living conditions improve they'll follow the same path as the more developed countries.

Only in underdeveloped, third world countries is religious devotion on the rise.

What about the US?

Originally posted by Conrau K
So when scientists insert electrodes into the brain and stimulate specific areas thus precipitating the feeling we would identify as love, they are "authors of love"? Ergo, Gods?

[b]As a christian you are commanded to love everyone and not just those who love you back. This type of love is supernatural and is not mortal in nature.
No its not, so ...[text shortened]... Church attendence is declining and people are abandoning spirituality (and with good reason).[/b]

So when is the last time you showed love to someone who tried to kill you or do you harm? The natural response is to try and kill them or do them harm in retaliation, is it not?

Originally posted by rwingett
Religion may never completely die out, but it will become less and less of a factor in society. We see this process underway most notably in Europe, where the percentage of religious people is declining precipitously. The Czech Republic, for example, is 39% atheist. That's a whopping percentage that will only go up. The countries with the highest levels of ...[text shortened]... their living conditions improve they'll follow the same path as the more developed countries.

We see this process underway most notably in Europe, where the percentage of religious people is declining precipitously.

And where the population itself is declining even more precipitously.

Btw, are you including the Muslims in your % above?

The Czech Republic, for example, is 39% atheist.

After the best part of a century under Communism, is that so surprising?

The countries with the highest levels of education and the greatest standards of living are seeing their religious fervor wane.

The US does seem to be an exception.

EDIT: Btw, the oil-rich Arab countries in the Middle East have high levels of education and high standards of living - but I don't see any "waning" of religious fervor...

Originally posted by whodey
So when is the last time you showed love to someone who tried to kill you or do you harm? The natural response is to try and kill them or do them harm in retaliation, is it not?

The christians response would be to kill them to- its called self defense.

Originally posted by Conrau K
The christians response would be to kill them to- its called self defense.

But this was not what Christ did. When they came for Jesus Peter took a sword out and cut off one of the soldiers ears. Jesus then promptly rebuked him and reattached his ear and went to the cross willingly. This is why I say that this is a supernatural kind of love he was exhibiting. You are right in that the natural reaction is self defense. This is my whole point.

Originally posted by whodey
But this was not what Christ did. When they came for Jesus Peter took a sword out and cut off one of the soldiers ears. Jesus then promptly rebuked him and reattached his ear and went to the cross willingly. This is why I say that this is a supernatural kind of love he was exhibiting. You are right in that the natural reaction is self defense. This is my whole point.

No apparently your point was that whatever created happiness was God.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
What about the US?

In a way the US is underdeveloped. At least when considering the level of illiteracy over there:

http://www.ahalenia.com/id/id11/illiterati.html

I'm especially humored (at the same time frightened) by the quote at the top of the page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_illiteracy

Originally posted by lucifershammer
After the best part of a century under Communism, is that so surprising?

Forgive me for saying this, but communism (contrary to what seem to be the popular belief) is not in itself against any form of religion. The people in any communist state that I know of are perfectly free to practice their religion as a private matter (which of course is not inherently a communistic trate - but secular). And those communist states aren't even really communistic, but dictatorships. It's as if I said: A state, inherently christian, promotes massmurder of people in foreign countries, simply because the US state is largely controlled by fundamental christians and has declared war on other countries leading to a trail of blood and destruction. That's just silly. The US gov. are not mass murderers because the majority of leaders are christians. It's because the majority of leaders are power thirsty maniacs whom (thanks to the low level of general education among the american public - and why do you think that is?) has obtained a little too much power. The same is true for any country. If the elite gains too much power, they will focus, not on raising the level of education among their people but to increase their own power and use the general public for their own purposes. It doesn't matter if we're talking politics or religion here. So the fact that atheism is rising in Europe, doesn't necessarily mean that you can point to a single factor and say that's it! That's why it's happening, and then claim that it wouldn't happen if things were "right" (pun intended) in those parts of Europe. That's an argument that can easily be turned around. Christianity (organised religion of any kind actually) has so much influence over this or that population because something is inherently wrong over there (low education, poverty, crime rate), so religion is needed to make life durable, but at the same time, once religion gains too much influence, it's "leaders" can use that power to serve their own needs as has been done repeatedly all throughout history due to the fact that those leaders (however pure the beliefsystem they adhere to are) are merely human. Suffice it to say, with a scientific education you gain a deeper understanding of how things work and can see things from a larger perspective (as I'm sure you know, since obviously you are an educated man), and then you can decide for yourself if you really believe in the supernatural or not (and no state or religious order can "infect" your mind in order to control your actions). You will be more able to see through such mindgames simply because you can see the possible interior motives that "those" people have for getting you to think about matters a certain way (or avoid asking certain questions). That is best for all people.

So, whereas education in itself won't inhibit the possibility of there being a god and this or that religious scripture being right, it does allow you to make your own informed decision and noone has the right to force their opinion on you. You decide that for yourself. If the majority of people are starting to believe that there is no god, so be it. If the majority decides to the contrary (that there is a god), fine. This religious belief has no place in politics or world-affairs anyway and it's therefore a completely personal matter not to be judged by anyone else.

This is the whole point of a secular state (preferrably a democracy). It can have communistic undertones or socialistic or capitalistic, but so long as you keep religion and state separate, and allow all citizens a good (all-round) education, we can live together despite our different religious beliefs.

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To Whodey:

It doesn't matter if religion will live forever or not. If it matters to you, then keep practising your religion. I won't be affected this or that way by your decision. I have my own mind to think with, and my own experience and knowledge to build upon. I know what I believe. You keep saying that love is the most important thing and that your God is love. Fine. What do I care? I think love is not something that comes from outside my physical self, and I think there are many things in life as important. You should have no problem with that. Why should you care? As long as I'm not saying that you cannot believe and practice your own religion and you don't tell me I must repent, we can co-exist peacefully and not let things get out of hand.

If you wish to understand how come we "atheists" don't believe in an exterior force like a god passing his love down to us; how come we can choose to show mercy even to our worst enemies and base our morals on something other than your god, you should listen to the responses you get and not keep falling back to the same arguments over and over again. You have set your mind to believe that anything but an exterior god of love is an impossibility and then masquerade as someone who's actually trying to understand another point of view. It won't work. People are getting tired of answering the same old, and frankly, we're not getting anywhere with this.

If atheism bothers you so much, perhaps you should ask yourself why it bothers you so much, and deal with it on your own personal level.

Originally posted by stocken
Forgive me for saying this, but communism (contrary to what seem to be the popular belief) is not in itself against any form of religion.

You need to re-read your Marx. From the Communist Manifesto, chapter I:

"Law, morality, religion, are to [the proletariat] so many bourgeois prejudices, behind which lurk in ambush just as many bourgeois interests."

"But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience."

http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html