What's the point of heaven?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby

....Eternity Past) --------------------------- [time/human history] ---------------------------- (Eternity Future....

Which as I say, clearly contradicts josephw's definition of eternity.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Which as I say, clearly contradicts josephw's definition of eternity.

As Joe said: "Eternity cannot be described by the same terms used to measure time." Eternity encapsulates time.

Originally posted by josephw
Blurting out this morning are you? Get a cup of coffee and relax. 😵

So I take it you think I'm an idiot for saying that eternity has nothing to do with time?

Then go ahead a prove me wrong. Show me how to measure eternity with terms used to measure time, or any other terms you care to use.

eternity relates to time. don't be daft.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/eternity/

The English word ‘eternal’ comes from aeturnus in Latin, itself a derivation from aevum, an age or time. So ‘eternity’ means everlastingness. However, in the course of philosophical discussion the idea of everlastingness has been further refined, and two contrasting concepts can be denoted by it. It is usual to make the contrast clear by calling one of these ‘eternity’ or ‘atemporality’ and the other ‘sempiternity’ or ‘everlastingness'.


you can philosophize on the exact flavor of eternity. but not assign it a meaning that suits you just because.


otherwise, i've been wanting to make every noun mean cookie for a long time now. if you can declare a word to mean what you want, why can't i?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
As Joe said: "Eternity cannot be described by the same terms used to measure time." Eternity encapsulates time.

how about you look it up in a dictionary before you continue this?

just about every definition has to do with time and none is about space.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
As Joe said: "Eternity cannot be described by the same terms used to measure time." Eternity encapsulates time.

Yet you still used the words 'past' and 'future' which are terms used to measure time - contradicting what Joe said.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby

....Eternity Past) --------------------------- [time/human history] ---------------------------- (Eternity Future....

As Joe said: "Eternity cannot be described by the same terms used to measure time." Eternity encapsulates time.

I have to go along with that Bobby.

Time exists within the boundary of eternity, but eternity cannot be bound by time.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Which as I say, clearly contradicts josephw's definition of eternity.

No, you misunderstand.

Eternity in relationship to time extends beyond time in direction from time.

If one were to say future eternity or past eternity, then time would have a stamp on eternity, but the exact opposite is the case.

Eternity past is merely a reference point in time. Thus we have, "In the beginning..." Before the beginning was eternity past, and when time is no more, eternity future.

The terms past and future are markers in time bounded by eternity.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
how about you look it up in a dictionary before you continue this?

just about every definition has to do with time and none is about space.

Marriam-Webster
: time without an end
: a state that comes after death and never ends
: time that seems to be without an end

Full Definition
1 : the quality or state of being eternal
2 : infinite time <lasting throughout eternity>
3 plural : age 3b
4 : the state after death : immortality
5 : a seemingly endless or immeasurable time <an eternity of delays>

The term time is used for illustration. Time is the opposite of eternity. Time begins and ends, but eternity has no beginning or end.

Time terms are only for the purpose of illustration, and cannot be linked to eternity except as a means of giving reference to the concept of eternity.

Originally posted by josephw
Ya, that's a tricky one for sure. It's been debated about what that means forever.

Still, prophetically speaking, the return of Jesus and Him establishing the kingdom on earth has a long way to go. Many things have to come to pass first. The disciples knew that as does any other that knows the scriptures. The ignorant masses not withstanding.

I still t ...[text shortened]... f the age of grace.

Then God will resume the prophetic timetable with Israel and the kingdom.

It's "imminent", not "eminent".

Imminent:
adjective
1. likely to occur at any moment; impending

If the kingdom has a long way to go, it's because Christians have gotten the notion that they can just sit around on their lazy behinds and passively wait for Jesus to pop by and place it upon their laps on a silver platter.

Shifting the conception of the kingdom from the immediate here and now to a distant otherworldly future had a profound effect. In the former, we have examples of the people and the apostles doing their part to help inaugurate the kingdom. Passages such as Acts 2:43-47 and Acts 4:32-37 bear this out. With a sustained movement like that, the kingdom WAS imminent. But no. Christians, due largely to Paul, shifted to the latter conception. Christians were now expected to do absolutely nothing. They could just lounge about, continuing their daily collaboration with mammon, and Jesus would supposedly bring them the kingdom anyway. Well, he hasn't. And he won't.

Originally posted by josephw
No, you misunderstand.

Or rather you misspoke. Give it some thought, make up your mind what you really want to say, then try and tell us what you really mean by eternity, because so far, you seem to contradict yourself in every post.

Originally posted by josephw
Marriam-Webster
: time without an end
: a state that comes after death and never ends
: time that seems to be without an end

Full Definition
1 : the quality or state of being eternal
2 : infinite time <lasting throughout eternity>
3 plural : age 3b
4 : the state after death : immortality
5 : a seemingly endless or immeasurable time <an eternity of ...[text shortened]... d cannot be linked to eternity except as a means of giving reference to the concept of eternity.

will time still pass in your idea of eternity?

Originally posted by rwingett
It's "imminent", not "eminent".

[b]Imminent:
adjective
1. likely to occur at any moment; impending

If the kingdom has a long way to go, it's because Christians have gotten the notion that they can just sit around on their lazy behinds and passively wait for Jesus to pop by and place it upon their laps on a silver platter.

Shifting the conce ...[text shortened]... mammon, and Jesus would supposedly bring them the kingdom anyway. Well, he hasn't. And he won't.[/b]

Thanks for the correction. It was a typo.

Don't get me wrong, I won't presume to give you a Bible lesson, but you're wrong about what was understood by the apostles and Paul concerning the imminent return of Jesus.

The second coming can only happen under certain conditions, and the apostles understood what those conditions were. They certainly could not have thought Jesus would return anytime soon knowing the prophesies.

The "imminent" thing has to do with the being, "caught up to meet The Lord in the air", a concept that was introduced long after Pentecost.

Anyway, I empathize with your sentiments about the lazy, passive and collaborating with mammon type Christians, but what the heck, Christians are human too and don't have the corner on the market of hypocrisy.

It's just a shame how Christians behave in light of the call to Godliness in the Bible. Seems the higher calling would be reflected the conduct of more Christians than there is, but just how many professing Christians are really Christians? God only knows.

But that doesn't diminish the truth of God's Word. But it does bring reproach on Christ. "...yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;.."

Originally posted by twhitehead
Or rather you misspoke. Give it some thought, make up your mind what you really want to say, then try and tell us what you really mean by eternity, because so far, you seem to contradict yourself in every post.

"Or rather you misspoke."

Entirely possible. I doubt anyone here can post the perfect post. I make no claim of perfect understanding, but I think I gave a pretty good explanation of what I think eternity means.

And that's all it is, my imperfect explanation. I think it's better than yours.

Or didn't you give a definition of eternity?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
will time still pass in your idea of eternity?

That's a good question. Is there a "passing" of time in the perpetual now?

Here's a passage the eludes me thus far. Very interesting.

Revelation 10:5,6
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Maybe we don't really know what time is! In the passage above the angel swears by virtually everything, "that there should be time no longer". But it doesn't say when that will happen. Sometimes I think I will live forever and never fully understand all the scripture, but I will never grow tired of learning from it.

Originally posted by josephw
Marriam-Webster
: time without an end
: a state that comes after death and never ends
: time that seems to be without an end

Full Definition
1 : the quality or state of being eternal
2 : infinite time <lasting throughout eternity>
3 plural : age 3b
4 : the state after death : immortality
5 : a seemingly endless or immeasurable time <an eternity of ...[text shortened]... d cannot be linked to eternity except as a means of giving reference to the concept of eternity.

you now have to look up the word time.

don't worry, i can wait.

on second thought, just start with the letter A, see what other words you have no idea what they mean.