Originally posted by josephwOh the irony....
Well, I'm not an atheist, but, based on what I hear from atheist, I would imagine that they would be living in paradise. They would live forever because they would have access to the tree of life, and there would be no god to kill them or kill each other over.
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou're right. I've never heard an atheist say that most wars are started by religious people killing in the name of God. Nor have I ever heard it said that God is a murderer.
Stop lying, you did not hear that from atheists, you made it up.
Just thought I'd start a war is all!
Originally posted by Of Ants and ImpsMarriage is one of four divine establishments (designed to protect and perpetuate the human race); and under attack.
Those were the same lines I was thinking, GBob. Considering the most important factors objectively in determining a long lasting marriage are the higher frequency of church attendance and the greater level of importance the subjects put down as of their religion.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI said, "... wherever they found it." Not just Sweden. Making such a society in Sweden only hasn't prevented any wars that I know of. A perfect society is pretty useless to mankind if it's not the whole planet getting involved.
No need to imagine it. Just go to Sweden.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyHmmmm, so much for the perfect society.
[b]"People Statistics > Divorces per 100 marriages (most recent) by country"
DEFINITION: Number of divorces per 100 marriages. Data for 2000.
"# 1 Belgium: 59.8 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 2) Sweden: 53.9 divorces per 100 marriage
(# 3) Czech Republic: 53.7 divorces per 100 marriage
# 4 Finland: 53.2 divor ...[text shortened]... e"
HTTP://WWW.NATIONMASTER.COM/GRAPH/PEO_DIV_PER_100_MAR-PEOPLE-DIVORCES-PER-100-MARRIAGES[/b]
Originally posted by twhiteheadSo are you saying that NO marriages are happy? I.e., that all marriages either end in divorce or stay together yet unhappy?
Correction: Inverse of number of couples per 100 marriages still stuck in unhappy marriages because of religion.
I know a few people who would not only disagree, but resent that insinuation bitterly. Happy married couples DO exist.
Originally posted by SuzianneI actually have no idea how many wars Sweden has prevented - I don't buy your claim that it hasn't prevented any. How would you know?
I said, "... wherever they found it." Not just Sweden. Making such a society in Sweden only hasn't prevented any wars that I know of. A perfect society is pretty useless to mankind if it's not the whole planet getting involved.
I also don't buy your claim that advances in society are useless until the whole planets involved. If you buy into that you might as well give up on all political systems / societies etc as they are all useless.
I also don't think anyone claimed that an absence of religion would result in a perfect society.
Originally posted by SuzianneYou're right, I got it wrong. That is certainly not what I intended to imply. I guess to estimate how many unhappy couples there are we need to compare divorce rates in societies where there isn't strong social pressure to remain married and societies where there is, and find the difference.
So are you saying that NO marriages are happy? I.e., that all marriages either end in divorce or stay together yet unhappy?
I know a few people who would not only disagree, but resent that insinuation bitterly.
I don't think they should 'resent it bitterly'. They should just laugh at my foolishness (if that was really the view I held). They really shouldn't care less what other people think. Just as I laugh at GBs belief that all marriages should be maintained despite unhappiness. I will only resent him if he fights for or manages to pass any laws preventing divorce - or, opposes gay rights to marriage.
Originally posted by twhiteheadSweden has prevented wars? Wow, you really do live a pipe dream. Let me help you out here. Zero. That's how many.
I actually have no idea how many wars Sweden has prevented - I don't buy your claim that it hasn't prevented any. How would you know?
I also don't buy your claim that advances in society are useless until the whole planets involved. If you buy into that you might as well give up on all political systems / societies etc as they are all useless.
A society (even a perfect one) saying to others, "I've got mine, screw you" really IS pretty useless to the rest of the globe.
Originally posted by twhiteheadIf you had a happy marriage and someone came up to you and said, "yeah, right... You are a LIAR, because I know all marriages are unhappy," how would that make you feel? Might one not resent that?
I know a few people who would not only disagree, but resent that insinuation bitterly.
I don't think they should 'resent it bitterly'. They should just laugh at my foolishness (if that was really the view I held). They really shouldn't care less what other people think. Just as I laugh at GBs belief that all marriages should be maintained despite unhappi ...[text shortened]... fights for or manages to pass any laws preventing divorce - or, opposes gay rights to marriage.
Originally posted by SuzianneYou said that already. But how do you know that?
Sweden has prevented wars? Wow, you really do live a pipe dream. Let me help you out here. Zero. That's how many.
A society (even a perfect one) saying to others, "I've got mine, screw you" really IS pretty useless to the rest of the globe.
Once again, what makes you think Swedes are like that? And even if it was, being useless to the rest of the globe is not the same as being useless. In Zambia, we are not particularly useful to the rest of the globe except for allowing them to steal our copper and generally exploit us, but that doesn't stop us trying to improve our society for our own benefit.
Originally posted by SuzianneMaybe I would. I guess that although it shouldn't bother them too much, it still might. So I'll concede that you are right on that one.
If you had a happy marriage and someone came up to you and said, "yeah, right... You are a LIAR, because I know all marriages are unhappy," how would that make you feel? Might one not resent that?
Originally posted by SuzianneLets try and come up with a way to estimate it. Suppose we count how many countries have had wars in the last 50 years and how many haven't we would know what the average 'war rate' was. Could we then conclude that any country bellow the average number of wars is doing something right that is preventing wars? Or are wars totally random and without cause or prevention?
Sweden has prevented wars? Wow, you really do live a pipe dream. Let me help you out here. Zero. That's how many.