1. Subscriberhakima
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    06 Jul '20 02:36
    About a month after my eldest daughter announced that she was pregnant, she revealed a tattoo with the word “HATEFUL” etched across her lower back. I was devastated and remember taking it so personally, “After all,” I reasoned, “Didn’t I contribute my precious DNA to create the very skin she had desecrated?” I now realise just how dramatic and judgmental I had been and it was likely the reaction she expected, proving her point that I was...dramatic and judgmental.

    I remember whinging and wailing to my brother, an artist, about my dismay and certainty that she would surely regret what she had done. He told me, “Pamela, she well may regret it and all is not lost. He had also seen the tattoo and used his artist’s eye to see it in a different perspective. He told me that, artistically, the word “hateful” could easily be turned to “hopeful”.

    That perspective stopped me short and I came to think that what she had done could very well indeed been a cry for hope. Perhaps not, but looking at it differently helped me to calm my own internal drama, release my judgment about it and be at peace.

    Over the years, she has not changed it or expressed regret over it, and I barely remember it is there.
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    06 Jul '20 02:37
    Some people believe that Islam, for example, is "Satanic". Is it acceptable to hate things that are believed to be "Satanic"?
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    06 Jul '20 02:40
    @hakima said
    About a month after my eldest daughter announced that she was pregnant, she revealed a tattoo with the word “HATEFUL” etched across her lower back.
    If I may ask, what did a tattoo of that particular word mean to her?
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    06 Jul '20 02:45
    @fmf said
    If I may ask, what did a tattoo of that particular word mean to her?
    How would that be any of your damn business, you creepy leech? !!!
  5. Subscriberhakima
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    06 Jul '20 02:56
    @fmf said
    If I may ask, what did a tattoo of that particular word mean to her?
    I asked that question, at the time she got the tat, she was very angry and let me know it. She told me that she not only felt hateful but actually was hateful...so she identified hateful as an aspect of herself—angry, filled with wrath and regret.

    Now, 16 years later, she says that it reminds her of a particular time in her life in which she had lost hope and discovered a very dark aspect of herself.
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    06 Jul '20 02:59
    @hakima said
    Now, 16 years later, she says that it reminds her of a particular time in her life in which she had lost hope and discovered a very dark aspect of herself.
    Do you sense the experience - and getting past it - has made her discerning about her use of the words"hate" and "hateful"?
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    06 Jul '20 03:03
    @fmf said
    Do you sense the experience - and getting past it - has made her discerning about her use of the words"hate" and "hateful"?
    Are you secretly Ghislaine Maxwell?
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    06 Jul '20 03:11
    @fmf said
    What do "hate", "hatred" and "hateful" mean to you?
    I wonder if feelings of "hate" can sometimes be a natural or instinctive defence mechanism in the face of possible danger, in a similar way to how "fear" serves a practical purpose.
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    06 Jul '20 03:14
    @fmf said
    I wonder if feelings of "hate" can sometimes be a natural or instinctive defence mechanism in the face of possible danger, in a similar way to how "fear" serves a practical purpose.
    Wonder all you like, but now it just seems like you are talking to yourself.
  10. Subscriberhakima
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    06 Jul '20 03:18
    @fmf said
    Do you sense the experience - and getting past it - has made her discerning about her use of the words"hate" and "hateful"?
    Yes, I think it has, although I think she would be more ready to use either word than I would be...she’s been to “that dark space” of hate, so I am very cognizant of her state of mind when she uses them.
  11. Subscriberhakima
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    06 Jul '20 03:20
    @fmf said
    I wonder if feelings of "hate" can sometimes be a natural or instinctive defence mechanism in the face of possible danger, in a similar way to how "fear" serves a practical purpose.
    That is very interesting to think about. I had not considered it until you raised the question.
  12. Subscriberhakima
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    06 Jul '20 03:22
    @caesar-salad said
    Wonder all you like, but now it just seems like you are talking to yourself.
    It doesn’t seem that way to me, especially since FMF and I are carrying on a very civil conversation.
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    06 Jul '20 03:22
    @hakima said
    About a month after my eldest daughter announced that she was pregnant, she revealed a tattoo with the word “HATEFUL” etched across her lower back. I was devastated and remember taking it so personally, “After all,” I reasoned, “Didn’t I contribute my precious DNA to create the very skin she had desecrated?”
    I look back and think that I was brought up "hating" tattoos ~ or at least being disdainful of them ~ but I don't feel that way anymore, probably in line with a general change in values and norms over the last 40 years.

    I also have a friend who is a professional tattoo artist and know lots of people who have tattoos, large and small and some have very extensive tattoo art on their bodies. The antidote to feelings of "hate" is familiarity and the rollback of ignorance, perhaps.
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    06 Jul '20 03:24
    @hakima said
    It doesn’t seem that way to me, especially since FMF and I are carrying on a very civil conversation.
    He's a snake. Snakes have that effect.
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    06 Jul '20 03:25
    @hakima said
    Yes, I think it has, although I think she would be more ready to use either word than I would be...she’s been to “that dark space” of hate, so I am very cognizant of her state of mind when she uses them.
    In the currently highly polarized public domain and discourse in the U.S., the notion of "hatred" [and accusations attendant thereto] seem to be in very common currency.
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