Waters of the Deep

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Believe in Allah, then. I do hope you realize the gravity of the issue and will reconsider your decision.

A muslim could say the ssme to you.

Originally posted by sonship

So free will means letting men like Vlad the Impailer torture over a hundred thousand people in one of the most gruesome ways imaginable?

There undoubtedly has been atrocities in human history.

You just criticized the flood of Noah as a cruel act of God.
You don't know how many similar things may have happened when [b]"the wic ...[text shortened]... ds us all up next to Jesus Christ.


Did you ever get enjoyment by going to a horror movie ?

Basicslly, you believe:

God allowing unspeakable torture makes him good (free will)

vs.

God using his power to ensure peace, harmony and good would make him bad.

Such thinking is despicable.

Originally posted by vivify
Whoa, now. This is actually huge for creationists. Here, there's enough water to kill every living thing on the surface (or in the world). We ask creationists for evidence, and here, we have something substantial (for a change). Rather than instinctively attack the poster, let's let this play out. Congrats to creationists.

In the meantime, geo ...[text shortened]... d a global flood, for reasons beside the amount of water. That's the creationists next hurdle.

Didn't anyone actually read the story completely ?? The water located is not in liquid, frozen or gaseous state, but bonded on a molecular level. It has nothing to do with babblical writings. It is science not religion. 🙄🙄

Originally posted by caissad4
Didn't anyone actually read the story completely ?? The water located is not in liquid, frozen or gaseous state, but bonded on a molecular level. It has nothing to do with babblical writings. It is science not religion. 🙄🙄

Where in the article does it say what you claim? Because it seems yo the exact opposite if what you said, even indicating that the rocks containing the water was "wet". It also says that if not for the reservoir, the earth would be submerged to where only the mountaintops were visible.

Originally posted by vivify
Where in the article does it say what you claim? Because it seems yo the exact opposite if what you said, even indicating that the rocks containing the water was "wet". It also says that if not for the reservoir, the earth would be submerged to where only the mountaintops were visible.

The water is located in ringwoodite . The water is trapped in the ringwoodite's molecular structure as hydroxide ions (bonded oxygen and hydrogen atoms). Ringwoodite is a rare type of mineral formed from olvine under very high temperatures and pressures. You might check LiveScience on the net. I know that you really, really want this to be some affirmation of your holy, holy book but it is science not an Abrahamic fairytale. 🙄🙄🙄

Originally posted by vivify
Where in the article does it say what you claim? Because it seems yo the exact opposite if what you said, even indicating that the rocks containing the water was "wet". It also says that if not for the reservoir, the earth would be submerged to where only the mountaintops were visible.

You could also check MSN science/technology.

Originally posted by sonship
I suppose your concept of a "loving" God is one who should allow anarchy of evil doing to spread unchecked.

Clearly God did let 'anarchy of evil doing' spread unchecked until it had spread to every human being on the planet except Noah and his family.
What I would like to know is what this 'anarchy of evil' was. Was it a disease? Was it a genetic tendency to commit sin? Was it some sort of infection by evil spirits? Why did it spread? Why was death the only solution?
It seems clear that whatever it was it had infected everyone, including the children and it was not curable.

I think if you can give us some hints as to what it was, then people are more likely to take the story seriously. As it stands, most people assume that people were behaving badly (as people do from time to time) and question why it would be necessary to kill everyone - especially the children.
In more modern times, when anarchies of evil have appeared, such as Germany or Japan in the second world war, it has been recognized by everyone that even though we kill many of those involved, we do so merely as a matter of self defense. If we can capture them and imprison them instead, we do so. And we generally try not to kill the children.
In fact it has been argued that the bombs dropped on Japan were themselves and act of evil as it was more than necessary to end the war, and they killed many innocent people.

Originally posted by vivify
A muslim could say the ssme to you.

Noted.

Originally posted by vivify
Basicslly, you believe:

God allowing unspeakable torture makes him good (free will)

vs.

God using his power to ensure peace, harmony and good would make him bad.

Such thinking is despicable.

Basicslly, you believe:

God allowing unspeakable torture makes him good (free will)

I did not say God anything "makes" God good.
I believe God is the Perfect uncreated Life from eternity to eternity.

The track record of God fulfilling His prophetic promise has been demonstrated to me in history. And His promise that evil doing will be terminated and a new heaven and new earth in which righteousness dwells will be the last state of things.

Acts of judgment recorded both in the Bible and in history demonstrate also to me that every instance of sinning is not always handled in the same way. Termination of evil doers has occurred at times. Sovereign allowance of them sometimes has also occurred.

I believe God is righteous in one case as well as the other. And I notice that He does not always deal with the situation in exactly the same way.

As I read through Genesis to Revelation, God did not always deal with situations in one and only one manner. He did not deal with you in only one manner, ie. to strike you down immediately on the spot when you were in the midst of an evil act.

vs.

God using his power to ensure peace, harmony and good would make him bad.

I told you above that God's track record for fulfilling His will is impressively reliable to me. Though evil doing seem pervasive at some times in history, it will not be eternal.

This word assures me that history is moving in the direction of a world in which all sinners are judged and the universe is filled with righteousness.

"But according to His promise we are expecting new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you expect these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace without spot and without blemish." (2 Peter 12,13)

While with long suffering we Christians endure, we exercise both patience and seek His holiness to be found without moral spot or blemish, when final judgment does inevitably come.

The alternative is often to use Vlad the Impaller or as an excuse to tolerate the sin nature eating away within as gangrene in our own beings, albeit seemingly on a lesser scale.

Such thinking is despicable.

What do your philosophy promise me which is better than Jesus Christ ?

I told you above we expect not sin to reign forever but rather"a new heaven and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

And God says the former things will pass away forever.

"And I heard a loud voice out of the throne, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, ... and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away.

And He who sits on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said, Write, for these words are faithful and true.

And He said to me, They have come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts from the spring of the water of life freely. (Rev. 21:3a-7)

Though as we grow with Christ's Spirit developing and expanding in us preparing us inwardly for that world to come, exercising forebearance, patience, and utilizing the allotted time, we know where history is headed.

What do you offer which is superior to salvation in Jesus Christ ?
Just a despicable feeling of self righteousness ?

Continuing with the climax of a God directed world history we see this next:

"But the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and fornicators and sorcerers and idolaters and all the false, their part will be in the lake of fire which burns with fire and brimestone, which is the second death." (v.8)

What gives you the assurance that if Vlad the Impaller in eternal damnation you will not be Vlad's nextdoor neighbor?

Look at the list, which is only representative and not exhaustive -

"But the cowardly ..."

Some people know Christ is the Son of God but for fear of losing esteem before other men they are afraid to confess Him before men, being cowardly.

" ... and unbelieving"

Some boast of things being despicable to them yet cannot believe such an incarnation of a Perfect righteous man has been manifested to follow from this filthy wicked world. They remain "unbelieving".

" and abominable and murderers and fornicators and sorcerers and idolaters and all the false ..."

Idolators are people who replace God with something else as an object of supreme devotion. It is put in the same list with murders, like Vlad.

Fornicators and the abominable are not excluded because murderers is included. Some people simply do not realize that fornication is an abomination to God. Then they do not realize that all sinning is an abomination to God.

Then there is " .... the false" . That would include everyone lying, exaggerating, speaking his own preference instead of speaking the exact truth, and many other forms of deception and self deception. God finds all these despicable.

I see an ultimate judgment, and ultimate salvation FROM judgement, and ultimate transformation in Christ's salvation to conform the believers inwardly and without to His righteous nature for this coming eternal age.

What does your philosophy offer as a better solution ?

Originally posted by twhitehead

You communicated that reading half of my posts was a waste of your time.
I respond in kind.

If you find it not a profitable use of your time to read lines of what you call preaching, I find it just as much a waste of my time to read your atheistic thoughts.

I am talking to and reading someone else now, not you.

Originally posted by vivify

Vivify, I don't think you answered my question yet.
What do you say ?

Would you have God condemned that you could be justified ?

Originally posted by caissad4
The water is located in ringwoodite . The water is trapped in the ringwoodite's molecular structure as hydroxide ions (bonded oxygen and hydrogen atoms). Ringwoodite is a rare type of mineral formed from olvine under very high temperatures and pressures. You might check LiveScience on the net. I know that you really, really want this to be some affirmation of your holy, holy book but it is science not an Abrahamic fairytale. 🙄🙄🙄

Agreed, but the article also asserted that the water could act as a reservoir for the world's oceans, which I'm sceptical about whether it's bonded in a mineral or not.

Originally posted by caissad4
The water is located in ringwoodite . The water is trapped in the ringwoodite's molecular structure as hydroxide ions (bonded oxygen and hydrogen atoms). Ringwoodite is a rare type of mineral formed from olvine under very high temperatures and pressures. You might check LiveScience on the net. I know that you really, really want this to be some affirmation of your holy, holy book but it is science not an Abrahamic fairytale. 🙄🙄🙄

The article doesn't say what you claim. Plus, I'm not a Christian, so I don't care about the bible being "affirmed". So far, you seem to be making stuff up.

Originally posted by vivify
The article doesn't say what you claim. Plus, I'm not a Christian, so I don't care about the bible being "affirmed". So far, you seem to be making stuff up.

The article does say the water is contained within ringwoodite. The article does not say how the water is trapped. I assume that Caissad4 obtained the rest of that statement from the LiveScience site or from prior knowledge of the chemistry of ringwoodite.

Originally posted by DeepThought
The article does say the water is contained within ringwoodite. The article does not say how the water is trapped. I assume that Caissad4 obtained the rest of that statement from the LiveScience site or from prior knowledge of the chemistry of ringwoodite.

The article also mentions water being squeezed out of the rock. This would mean that liquid can and diss come out of it in liquid form.