Two Questions for Any Dyed in the Wool Atheists

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
while the continental expansion was driven for the wealth of the few, the people in general don't support expansion for the riches that benefit the few. the people in general were driven by a deeply damaging ideology and it happened to be christianity in their case.

other damaging ideologies have since replaced christianity (and religion in general fo ...[text shortened]... , nationalism, capitalism etc. millions have perished under the banners of those false christs.

I think you have your head up your arse too.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
who tested the accuracy of the accounts and which credible institution keeps these records?

finally, what is it supposed to prove?

On your first point, you have to decide whether you believe the wide varitety of people who come up with these accounts. Try Googling blind and out of body experience and you will find several accounts.

If they are true accounts, then they demonstrate a separation of the body and spirit and as such present a significant challenge to claims that our spirits are purely the product of the chemistry of our brains and cannot live on after our bodies die.

Seeing light and tunnels and dead relatives etc, can plausably be explained by brain hypoxia. Blind people looking down and seeing themsleves and accurately describing their surroundings and also people seeing what went on in another room cannot

Originally posted by colinwbs
On your first point, you have to decide whether you believe the wide varitety of people who come up with these accounts. Try Googling blind and out of body experience and you will find several accounts.

If they are true accounts, then they demonstrate a separation of the body and spirit and as such present a significant challenge to claims that our spir ...[text shortened]... urately describing their surroundings and also people seeing what went on in another room cannot

I would believe that if I was there and saw it happen with my own 3 eyes🙂

Originally posted by sonhouse
I would believe that if I was there and saw it happen with my own 3 eyes🙂

You sound like a doubting Thomas.

Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

(John 20:28-29 NASB)

Originally posted by RJHinds
You sound like a doubting Thomas.

Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? [b]Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

(John 20:28-29 NASB)[/b]

You mean
'blessed are the stupid who are easy to convince by people building a religious empire'

Originally posted by sonhouse
You mean
'blessed are the stupid who are easy to convince by people building a religious empire'

Unfortunately there are those who do exactly what you say.

And make a lot of money out of it.

They do not represent God, but their own greed.

There are genuine Christians and there are parasites who masquerade as great preachers / healers, fleeceing their followers and doing Christianity a great deal of harm in the process.

Derren Brown did an excellent expose of the fraudsters.

Originally posted by colinwbs
Unfortunately there are those who do exactly what you say.

And make a lot of money out of it.

They do not represent God, but their own greed.

There are genuine Christians and there are parasites who masquerade as great preachers / healers, fleeceing their followers and doing Christianity a great deal of harm in the process.

Derren Brown did an excellent expose of the fraudsters.

Good for him. Now let him expose the basic lies of christianity, JC ascended into heaven, JC was born from a virgin. Just like the Sumarian god stories Judaism ripped off and called it their own, like the 7 day creation myth, right out of Egyptian and Sumarian myth.

All cristianity (Which should in fact be called Paulism) has is ripped off tales.

Like Jesus didn't die on the cross, if it was even a cross, the worse offenders were simply nailed to a big tree, but he was in the bible, cut down way early by guys who paid off the guards to look the other way, slathered him down with healing herbs, like Aloe, not something you put on somebody you think dead, so three days later he miraculously surfaces and instead of ascending into heaven, split Jerusalem where he knew his ass would have been grass and split on down the silk road where monasteries were founded by persons unknown but it is likely to have been JC himself, and died in Kashmir, there is actual evidence for that.

That works for me a LOT better than the fairy tale foisted on us in the bible.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Good for him. Now let him expose the basic lies of christianity, JC ascended into heaven, JC was born from a virgin. Just like the Sumarian god stories Judaism ripped off and called it their own, like the 7 day creation myth, right out of Egyptian and Sumarian myth.

All cristianity (Which should in fact be called Paulism) has is ripped off tales.

Lik nce for that.

That works for me a LOT better than the fairy tale foisted on us in the bible.

People have been trying to do what you want for years with failure. One can not prove truth to be lies. However, the theory of evolution has already been proved to be lies. If you would get your head out of your arse, you would see it. 😏

Originally posted by sonhouse
No, he killed the Aztec empire and did a great job of that.

I have no disagreement with you here.

You pinning it on Jesus, though, I do have a problem with.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I have no disagreement with you here.

You pinning it on Jesus, though, I do have a problem with.

Assuming that he ever actually existed...

JC promoted unthinking blind faith as a virtue.

The damage done throughout history by unthinking blind faith is incredible.

Now JC is not of course alone in promoting such faith, but he was, if he existed,
one of the more successful promoters of it.

IF JC really was the son of god and had divine inspiration and purpose, then he has
absolute responsibility for making sure his message was clear and impossible to
misinterpret. And has responsibility for what people do in his name through
misunderstanding, wilfully or otherwise, what he is supposed to have said and done.

If JC was really the son of god and the bible really divinely inspired then it should not
be so evidently factually incorrect and morally bankrupt.

If JC and god really existed then the bible is perhaps their greatest crime.

A mess of lies and vague, unclear, and often contradictory instruction coupled with gross
sexism and bigotry. Explicitly condoning slavery, torture, and murder.

If JC was a god or son of god with divine inspiration then they should have foreseen how
their words would be interpreted and used and written the bible in a clear and unambiguous
way to make it a force for good, a force for reason, of tolerance and understanding, of truth.

Not a force for evil, a force for unreasoning faith, of bigotry and war, of lies.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Assuming that he ever actually existed...

JC promoted unthinking blind faith as a virtue.

The damage done throughout history by unthinking blind faith is incredible.

Now JC is not of course alone in promoting such faith, but he was, if he existed,
one of the more successful promoters of it.

IF JC really was the son of god and had divine ins ...[text shortened]... , of truth.

Not a force for evil, a force for unreasoning faith, of bigotry and war, of lies.

You said, "JC promoted unthinking blind faith as a virtue." This statement makes you either a liar or an ignoramous. I believe you are probably both.
😏

Originally posted by Suzianne
I have no disagreement with you here.

You pinning it on Jesus, though, I do have a problem with.

I agree with you on that one. If Jesus was the way he is made out to be then there is no way he would have condoned any of that rubbish.
So it's the powers that be at the time that used Jesus' name to 'unite and conquer' ,etc. ?

Originally posted by colinwbs
Seeing light and tunnels and dead relatives etc, can plausably be explained by brain hypoxia. Blind people looking down and seeing themsleves and accurately describing their surroundings and also people seeing what went on in another room cannot

And the latter should be testable via scientific methods. I guess it could be so rare and has so little evidence that it is impossible to confirm scientifically, but then one should probably use Occams razor and assume it does not happen until proven otherwise. There is simply so much evidence that the mind is a direct product of the physical brain that it should take extraordinary evidence to convince someone otherwise.
Of course if there was scientific evidence, it would have got someone a Nobel prize by now, or at least one article in a peer reviewed scientific journal (from someone seeking the Nobel prize - it would be such a ground breaking discovery).

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I agree with you on that one. If Jesus was the way he is made out to be then there is no way he would have condoned any of that rubbish.
So it's the powers that be at the time that used Jesus' name to 'unite and conquer' ,etc. ?

So how come JC did not anywhere come out and say, "hey, you know that slavery thing, it's bad very bad, stop doing it."

There are passages that people have done tortured gymnastics to contort into maybe sort of suggesting that owning
people isn't particularly good. But compared to the number of things that are out right condemned in very clear language
(like being gay for example, or being a witch) it's clear that those who claim that JC condemned slavery are just grasping
at straws to try to make JC's 'morality' fit with our modern day secular morality.

JC also said several times that he was not there to change or replace ANY of the laws in the OT and in fact said that someone
who breaks even the least of the laws of god (as laid down in the OT) will be the very least in heaven.
(showing that Christianity has actually nothing to do with morals because there is only one commandment you can break and
not get into heaven and it's the one about having to believe in god, it doesn't matter what else you do as long as you believe
in god you go to heaven... To steal Aaron Rah's line, you just have to fly coach.)

So JC condones the OT, and actively promotes it, and thus his 'morality' can and indeed should be judged by not just what he
said himself (which is bad enough) but also by what it says in the OT.

Which is a real bummer for anyone trying to make JC out as a nice guy.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And the latter should be testable via scientific methods. I guess it could be so rare and has so little evidence that it is impossible to confirm scientifically, but then one should probably use Occams razor and assume it does not happen until proven otherwise. There is simply so much evidence that the mind is a direct product of the physical brain that i ...[text shortened]... c journal (from someone seeking the Nobel prize - it would be such a ground breaking discovery).

Not everyone seeks after Nobel prizes. It is not reasonable to apply the same rules dealing with physical things with the spiritual. How can one possibly test a spiritual experience by a physical test? That seems absurd on the surface. Don't forget ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME. 😏