22 Jun 12
If all we are is a bunch of chemical reactions and our spirit is purely a function of our brain's chemistry and is contained within it:
Why do we matter? Why is it wrong to adjust those chemical reactions with a lump of lead? The surrounding chemical reactions are also modified but so what?
How do you explain out of body experiences where people, blind from birth, are able to see themselves and their surroundings as medics fight to save their lives?
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22 Jun 12
Originally posted by colinwbsOh good grief it's the "without god you have no meaning" and "where do you get your morals from?" crap again.
If all we are is a bunch of chemical reactions and our spirit is purely a function of our brain's chemistry and is contained within it:
Why do we matter? Why is it wrong to adjust those chemical reactions with a lump of lead? The surrounding chemical reactions are also modified but so what?
How do you explain out of body experiences where people, bli ...[text shortened]... m birth, are able to see themselves and their surroundings as medics fight to save their lives?
Here is Aaron Rah Dealing with the question of meaning of life here in a recent talk he gave.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uDal8b6-X5o#t=3019s
PZ Myers here deals with morality.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/05/22/the-objective-morality-gotcha/
As does Matt Dillahunty here.
http://atheistexperience.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/matts-superiority-of-secular-morality.html
And Sam Harris here.
&feature=channel_video_title
And if you really want to go down this road I can demonstrate precisely how stupid this argument is in excruciating
detail.
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22 Jun 12
Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yes, projections into the future.
What about now? 2012?
What should the ideal age be, given all things, in a first world country?
Your talking about 100's of years, right?
I dont know man, but most people look pretty crusty after 90 or so.
The human mind and it's expectations are kind of weird. In one sense, we have great imaginations and ...[text shortened]... exceptions ...
Why wouldn't the rich keep the secrets of anti-aging for themselves?
What should the ideal age be, given all things, in a first world country?
What makes you think that such a thing as an ideal age exists?
And again, ideal for who??
My 'ideal age' if I even have such a thing is not necessarily going to be remotely the same
as someone else's.
I really don't get this question.
Why wouldn't the rich keep the secrets of anti-aging for themselves?
You presume the knowledge would be secret, but that's not how science works.
22 Jun 12
Originally posted by googlefudge
Oh good grief it's the "without god you have no meaning" and "where do you get your morals from?" crap again.
Here is Aaron Rah Dealing with the question of meaning of life here in a recent talk he gave.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uDal8b6-X5o#t=3019s
PZ Myers here deals with morality.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/phar ...[text shortened]... this road I can demonstrate precisely how stupid this argument is in excruciating
detail.
And if you really want to go down this road I can demonstrate precisely how stupid this argument is in excruciating
detail.
Just tell us then what your existence means. Why are you here ?
What is the significance that googlefudge was born ?
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22 Jun 12
Originally posted by jaywillwhy does there need to be a reason?And if you really want to go down this road I can demonstrate precisely how stupid this argument is in excruciating
detail.
Just tell us then what your existence means. Why are you here ?
What is the significance that googlefudge was born ?
22 Jun 12
Originally posted by jaywillOther problems, How Can I Count The Ways:
[quote]
I have no doubt of the inner peace as a result of true faith. It is a mind drug in itself, in my opinion, a false drug, a crutch that never fails because of the way the propaganda of Christianity and all other religions are set up.
The original writers of the books of the bible were not stupid. There was definite intent, the intent being ...[text shortened]... n. Behind suppression of women what other problems do you have lined up for the Christian ?
I guess suppression of women is not a big deal for you, being male. How about the propensity for Christians to use their religion as a rational to destroy entire civilizations? How about the propensity for them to start wars based on their religion?
Don't get me wrong, I think Christians do a lot of good too, like food drives and so forth but even there they have an agenda, give you food, try to convert.
How about proselytizing to people who have no desire to convert to Christianity?
I have a problem with Christians of one faith fighting another version, for instance, when I was a child, my grandmother was Pentacostal, my mom had sent me to a Lutheran school (Which BTW, gave me essentially a HS education by the time I was in the 8th grade, of course along with intense religious study) but my grandmother told me I was damned to go to hell if I wasn't baptized in the PENTACOSTAL way, total dunking, that pussy method the Lutherans use won't do.
I thank my grandmother for showing me the hypocrisy inherent in Christianity.
I also saw a Mormon family when I was working in Thailand, walking down the street as if they were surrounded by bugs. I have more on that but have to go to work.
22 Jun 12
4 edits
Originally posted by googlefudgeWell. I asked you. It is only fair that I give you my answer.
Watch the Aaron Rah clip.
You don't have any meaning or reason either.
You certainly can't get one from Christianity.
My meaning in life doesn't start with me. It starts with an UNCREATED Person - God. I am a CREATED life. But my source was an uncreated and eternal Person. He is the ground of being. My meaning starts there with this uncreated and eternal God.
Now, I breath, my heart beats, I live because this uncreated Divine Being is building a "city" called New Jerusalem. You can read about New Jerusalem in the 21rst and 22nd chapter of the book of Revelation.
The Bible tells me that nothing can separate me from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. Nothing can sever me or separate me from the undying eternal love of this God in Christ Jesus. And He brought me into existence to be a constituent of this city New Jerusalem for His glory and for our enjoyment for eternity.
I am alive and exist because of the inseperable love of the One Who always was and who always will be. He wants a corporate expression of Himself united in life and nature and in expression with His creature man - redeemed, sanctified, and conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God.
Furthermore "all things work together for good to those who love God... to those called according to His purpose" God is orchestrating all things together for the accomplishment of this eternal purpose.
You can read more about this eternal purpose of God here:
www.godseconomy.org
and also here
www.regenerated.net
I learned all these things from the revelation of the Holy Bible.
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22 Jun 12
Originally posted by jaywillwhat is the meaning of gods life?
Well. I asked you. It is only fair that I give you my answer.
My meaning in life doesn't start with me. It starts with an UNCREATED Person - God. I am a CREATED life. But my source was an uncreated and eternal Person. He is the ground of being. My[b] meaning starts there with this uncreated and eternal God.
Now, I breath, my heart beats, I live b ...[text shortened]... ww.regenerated.net
I learned all these things from the revelation of the Holy Bible.[/b]
22 Jun 12
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseWell, that is an interesting testimony. And I'm both happy for you good education and sorry for your experience with your grandmother.
Other problems, How Can I Count The Ways:
I guess suppression of women is not a big deal for you, being male. How about the propensity for Christians to use their religion as a rational to destroy entire civilizations? How about the propensity for them to start wars based on their religion?
Don't get me wrong, I think Christians do a lot of good too, wn the street as if they were surrounded by bugs. I have more on that but have to go to work.
But you know, some people were turned off because they wanted to be turned off.
I mean, I've been offended by religious people at some time also. That is not terribly unique. Maybe the offences I incurred were equal to yours. You don't know if they could have been worse.
I had a whole Southern society of some religious folks teach that people like me didn't have souls.
So while I do sympathize with your turn off experience, not overly so do I sympathize. Because some people are turned away from God because they wanted to be turned away.
I think basically Atheism is the life long process of collecting reasons why you don't like to have God - after the fact of dislike for God.
By the way, I did not say oppression of women was not important to me. I raised a daughter. I have a sister. I have a mother and other women in my life. I have a wife. I have nieces. I care that they not be oppressed.
Did you know that five daughters of a certain Old Testament figure named Zelophehad were actually able to get the law of Moses amended to protect women's rights ? Read about it in Numbers 27 .
No small thing to get God's prophet to amend the law given by God upon Mt. Sanai. The five women, the daughters of Zelophehad did so.
Why didn't God intervene to stop this ? Why didn't Moses say "No Way!!" ?
Actually we see in the Old Testament God improving the customary treatment of women as compared to other surrounding ancient Near East societies.
22 Jun 12
Originally posted by stellspalfie
what is the meaning of gods life?
what is the meaning of gods life?
I feel as interesting a question as that is, it is not really for me to answer.
God is the ground of being.
The cosmic buck of all reality has to stop somewhere.
It stops with God - the Uncreated and Eternal Being as the ground of all being.
Your question really amounts to saying that the cosmic buck stops at something above and beyond God. I think that that is impossible.
But I did tell you why I am here.
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22 Jun 12
Originally posted by jaywillim not sure you did explain your meaning, i will accept that maybe i didnt understand what you wrote, but it seemed to me you only described certain conditions that exist as part of gods needs. that to me is no different than my wife saying the meaning of my children's life's is because she wanted to have children. to explain the meaning in your beliefs you would also have to explain why god needs to have this relationship with you.what is the meaning of gods life?
I feel as interesting a question as that is, it is not really for me to answer.
God is the ground of being.
The cosmic buck of all reality has to stop somewhere.
It stops with God - the Uncreated and Eternal Being as the ground of all being.
Your question really amounts to saying that ...[text shortened]... ng above and beyond God. I think that that is impossible.
But I did tell you why I am here.
im not saying it all stops above and beyond god. im saying if it does end at god then where does god get his meaning from. the usual stance a theist takes when questions are asked about god when comparing him to humans is that what applies to humans doesnt have to apply to god. therefore just because humans have to have meaning, doesnt mean god has to have meaning. christians wont say this when it comes to meaning though because they would not dare suggest god has no meaning because that also implies the meaning god has given them has no meaning. you only have meaning if the thing that gave you meaning also has meaning........so what is the meaning of god?
22 Jun 12
Originally posted by jaywillyou describe your god (biblegod) as having created the universe and humans, and demands to be recognized and praised as the creator. thus, your god has needs and such needs imply the presence of a purpose. the buck may have to stop somewhere, but it can't be that it stops with biblegod.what is the meaning of gods life?
I feel as interesting a question as that is, it is not really for me to answer.
God is the ground of being.
The cosmic buck of all reality has to stop somewhere.
It stops with God - the Uncreated and Eternal Being as the ground of all being.
Your question really amounts to saying that ...[text shortened]... ng above and beyond God. I think that that is impossible.
But I did tell you why I am here.