Truth- Absolute or Relative?

@dj2becker said
But obviously if you throw logic out the door you don’t have to subject yourself the law of non contradiction.

There is no contradiction.

KellyJay, for instance, believes that everyone is "evil" and "wicked" and that, therefore, everyone "deserves" to be tormented in burning flames for eternity and that everyone remains conscious forever - either "in Heaven" or some such - or conscious of the agony of being burned for eternity "in Hell" or some such. The mere fact that KellyJay believes that all this is true for everyone does not make these beliefs of his "objective".

dj2becker, you seem to me to be totally out of your depth.

@fmf said
My opinions about supernatural things, and my opinions about other people's beliefs regarding supernatural things, are all subjective. There is no contradiction.

Obviously if you’re not bounds by the laws of logic and absolute truth you can claim whatever you want and contradict yourself and claim that you’re not contradicting yourself and claim that you are using logic because all truth is relative. In essence you’re just shooting randomly and calling everything you hit the target. You can shift the goal posts whenever you wish. You can even claim that you aren’t. You can even claim that two contradictory statement are both true. Everything is possible within a framework of relative truth.

@dj2becker said
Obviously if you’re not bounds by the laws of logic and absolute truth you can claim whatever you want and contradict yourself and claim that you’re not contradicting yourself and claim that you are using logic because all truth is relative.

There is no contradiction in what I am saying. Meanwhile, there is there no "absolute truths" you can tell me about supernatural things that have resulted from your speculations and religious doctrines.

@dj2becker said
You can even claim that two contradictory statement are both true. Everything is possible within a framework of relative truth.

You are entitled to claim whatever "truth" you want about supernatural things. No one is stopping you.

@dj2becker said
In essence you’re just shooting randomly and calling everything you hit the target.

No, I am not. All I am saying is that all anyone can do is speculate about unknowable and unprovable supernatural things ~ which are immune to the kind of empirical scrutiny that creates objectivity ~ and the results of this speculation are subjective beliefs. I am not "shooting randomly" in any shape or form.

@dj2becker said
Obviously if you’re not bounds by the laws of logic and absolute truth ...

It does not matter how many times you refer to your religious/superstitious beliefs as "absolute truth" or claim that you are "bound" by "absolute truth", it does not make any of your beliefs "objective".

@fmf said
No, I am not. All I am saying is that all anyone can do is speculate about unknowable and unprovable supernatural things ~ which are immune to the kind of empirical scrutiny that creates objectivity ~ and the results of this speculation are subjective beliefs. I am not "shooting randomly" in any shape or form.

Your argument self destructs if you’re just speculating that it’s unprovable and unknowable. You can’t know that to be true, so your argument is moot.

@fmf said
It does not matter how many times you refer to your religious/superstitious beliefs as "absolute truth" or claim that you are "bound" by "absolute truth", it does not make any of your beliefs "objective".

If what you’re saying cannot be shown to be objectively true why should anyone even bother listening to you if everything is just just a meaningless cacophony of subjective ‘farts in the wind’?

@dj2becker said
If what you’re saying cannot be shown to be objectively true why should anyone even bother listening to you if everything is just just a meaningless cacophony of subjective ‘farts in the wind’?

People can make what they want of my personal opinions about supernatural matters, just as people can make what they want of your personal opinions about them too.

@dj2becker said
Your argument self destructs if you’re just speculating that it’s unprovable and unknowable. You can’t know that to be true, so your argument is moot.

Supernatural matters are the subject of both your speculation and mine. Neither of us is able to generate objective opinions about them.

@dj2becker said
If what you’re saying cannot be shown to be objectively true why should anyone even bother listening to you

Maybe for the same reason as I am listening to you.

@fmf said
Maybe for the same reason as I am listening to you.

If none of what we are saying can be objectively true, it doesn’t matter what anyone believes. It’s all pointless having a discussion then.

@dj2becker said
If none of what we are saying can be objectively true, it doesn’t matter what anyone believes. It’s all pointless having a discussion then.

I don't think this discussion has been pointless because I think I have laid out my stance pretty well and, presumably, you think you have done the same with your stance.