Originally posted by googlefudge
EDIT: However, this is still politics and not religion/spirituality. Just involving the pope doesn't change that.
This discussion should happen in debates and not here.[/b]

I disagree. For the atheist, and some who are religious, the religious fervor of politics is their god. We are but sheep in search of a "good" shepherd (or god) and demand a leader to fill the void.

Trump, like Hitler, is a shining example of this as people pledge their very souls to them personally. Then you have those who have pledged their immortal souls to a given political party and ideology. It matters little what empty suit or dress fills the void.

Like religion, politics is all based upon a belief that my way is the best way, with very little proof to back you up, but they have a leader who has all the answers to life's mysteries and problems

And I applaud you for comparing Trump to Hitler. In fact, I think every politician should be compared to Hitler unless we want history to repeat itself.

Well done! 😵

Originally posted by googlefudge
No. Trump would be way, way, way worse that GWB.
And I say that as someone who truly despises GWB.

GWB was a typical mainstream bad republican.

Trump is a violence inspiring authoritarian fascist as well as being dumber, thinner skinned, and
more gullible than GWB.

GWB was a bad president that you could live through.

Trump would be a monst ...[text shortened]... involving the pope doesn't change that.
This discussion should happen in debates and not here.

I've known Donald Trump for years. And I've been operating under the assumption that the reason Donald devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it.

Well, I was wrong.

Donald's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Donald's problem is that he can't sell it.

We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you Donald Trump is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things, and two things only.

Making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
I've known Donald Trump for years. And I've been operating under the assumption that the reason Donald devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it.

Well, I was wrong.

Donald's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Donald's problem is that he can't sell it.

We have serious problems to solve, and we n ...[text shortened]... and telling you who's to blame for it.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections.

Well played


EDIT: Although in reality 'selling stuff' or really 'conning people' is all that Trump is actually good at.

Originally posted by whodey
And I applaud you for comparing Trump to Hitler. In fact, I think every politician should be compared to Hitler unless we want history to repeat itself.

Well done! 😵

Comparing every politician to Hitler is and would be exceptionally stupid.
Which is why I am completely unsurprised that you would think it a good idea.

The comparison between Trump and Hitler works because both had violent authoritarian
nationalist ideologies that focused on villainizing an 'out group' for supposedly threatening
the 'in group' and promising to defend the 'in group' from the out group by violently putting
down the 'out group' and any and all dissent and protest.

In the case of Hitler the 'out group' was primarily Jews and Communists [but also included
atheists, liberals, protesters, etc etc] whereas for Trump it's immigrants, Muslims, and
non-white Americans. 'Republican media' has been screaming about the 'dangers' and
'threats' that these people supposedly present for over a decade and those people susceptible
to those messages have consequently congregated into the republican party and they have
been looking for a 'strong man' candidate who will 'protect them' and take decisive action
against the supposed threats and now they have one in the shape of Donald Trump.

The only real difference between Hitler and Trump on this score is that Hitler unlike Trump
was a significant architect of the fear that he exploited, whereas Trump is much more of
an opportunist and is simply taking advantage of fears cultivated by others.

However when you here Trump advocating for violent responses to protests, for torture, forced
deportations, and what are in effect lynch mobs, I can see no alternative but to label him as
a fascist and consider him a grave threat. In a way and on a scale that the regularly terrible
republicans are not.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism

Vox
YouTube

Originally posted by Rank outsider
I've known Donald Trump for years. And I've been operating under the assumption that the reason Donald devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it.

Well, I was wrong.

Donald's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Donald's problem is that he can't sell it.

We have serious problems to solve, and we n ...[text shortened]... and telling you who's to blame for it.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections.

So he is selling fear?

How does "the Donald" then differ from people like Hillary and the left that are selling fear regarding "the Donald" and such things as global warming?

Originally posted by whodey
So he is selling fear?

How does "the Donald" then differ from people like Hillary and the left that are selling fear regarding "the Donald" and such things as global warming?

I'm sorry, was that what you took from my post???

Have you learned to read properly yet?

Trump is selling VIOLENCE, and pandering to fears. In this case fears of overblown, non-existent,
or misidentified threats.

Firstly, fears about Islam and immigrants are massively overblown, they do not pose anything
remotely resembling a serious threat that warrants the kind of violent response he advocates.
This fear has been created and stoked by conservative media [like Fox News] and is blown way
way way out of proportion with the scale of the threat. You are more likely to be killed by the
cops than a terrorist in the USA, and if you are killed by a terrorist its most likely going to be
a Christian white male who kills you and not a Muslim extremest. And all those threats pale
into insignificance next to the risks of being killed in a car crash, or from atmospheric pollution
from transport industry and power generation wich kill tens of thousands annually.
And those risks pale next to the odds of dying from a heart attack from eating to many twinkies
and drinking to much cola.

It's certainly true that the white middle and working class is suffering and loosing out financially
and that this is a genuine problem. But while Trump blames this on the Chinese, or protesters,
or liberals, or immigrants or Muslims. They are not the source of the problem.
The problem is the neo-liberal/neo-conservative free market no regulation capitalist policies that almost
all mainstream politicians [brought and paid for my big money donations made worse by the supreme
court] advocate. There are all kinds of policy changes that could help the middle and working class's
out and none of them involve penalising Muslims or 'standing up to China'.

For example, I would advocate for a 'Guaranteed living wage' that is paid to every single American
over [lets say] 18 years old. [you might have a smaller graduated run in for teenagers that starts at
a small level at say 11, and increases bit by bit till they graduate to the full thing at 18]
In addition you introduce a single payer universal free at the point of delivery healthcare system.
And a few other things like paid maternity leave and subsidised child care.
Most other benefits [probably excluding military or disabled benefits] disappear as does a whole bunch of
bureaucracy as it's very simple and easy to mail cheques out to everyone every month [or more likely
just direct debit bank accounts].
I also introduce a massive infrastructure renewal and building program to repair and upgrade the national
infrastructure, including rapid switching to carbon free electricity generation.
And I would also introduce proper regulation of industry to ensure safe and environmentally sound
practices are followed. And in addition massively increase spending on science research.
This is paid for by increases to income, inheritance, and other taxes which is perfectly doable as current
tax levels are at historic lows.

What does this do, well first off extreme poverty just disappeared as everyone now has a living income.
Secondly, some people will be able to quit working and others will be able to work less [like only
work one job instead of two]. This will cause employers to have to start to compete for workers
instead of workers having to compete for jobs, which will push up wages. It also allows those currently
unemployed who want to work a better chance of getting into the job market and gives more incentive
to do so.
Thirdly, many more people have more financial security and buying power which boosts the economy
as does the big boost to employment and economic stimulation from the massive infrastructure spending.
This makes people both actually better off and makes them feel better off.
The single payer healthcare means people are less worried about health and get better healthcare which
increases employment and happiness while also reducing business costs which also helps boost wages.
Total healthcare costs go down as the huge sums paid to insurance companies is removed from the system,
along with various efficiency gains. This will bring the USA in line with other developed countries which have
similar levels [or often better] of healthcare at a fraction of the cost.

The freedom people have given their new financial security and safety allows for more entrepreneurs to enter
the market and more small businesses to try things out and take risks knowing that they have a safety net
to prevent them falling to far if things go wrong. Which makes the economy more dynamic and helps contribute
to people feeling of wellbeing and quality of life.

The reductions in pollution along with improved healthcare increase lifespans and life quality making America
a nice place to live in and preserve nature for current and future generations to enjoy.

This is all doable, doesn't involve violence or coercion and indeed increases freedom and quality of life, and
does so for everyone without penalising any out group.


This is an example of recognising an actual problem and presenting a reasonable [although not the only] solution
to that problem.

This is the kind of thing [albeit that the democrats are much more conservative] that the democrats being a reasonable
right of centre party do. They see problems and propose solutions [with varying degrees of workability] compromising
where necessary.
The republicans, Trump in particular, are nothing remotely like that.

Vox
The difference between the Republican and Democratic parties has never been clearer

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/17/11254506/republican--democratic-parties-garland

Originally posted by whodey
So he is selling fear?

How does "the Donald" then differ from people like Hillary and the left that are selling fear regarding "the Donald" and such things as global warming?

ALL Republicans sell fear. It's what they do.

The left not so much. There is a difference between "selling fear" and trying to wake people up to real dangers.

Originally posted by googlefudge
The difference between the Republican and Democratic parties has never been clearer.

Interesting. Ronald Reagan said this in 1976. Sorry, I don't have a source, but I can look it up. It was on his 5-minute daily radio spot. Of course, what he meant, and clarified, is that the Democratic party platform was the closest to socialism it had ever been. Actually, he may have said communism.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I'm sorry, was that what you took from my post???

Have you learned to read properly yet?

Trump is selling VIOLENCE, and pandering to fears. In this case fears of overblown, non-existent,
or misidentified threats.

Firstly, fears about Islam and immigrants are massively overblown, they do not pose anything
remotely resembling a serious threat ...[text shortened]... http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/17/11254506/republican--democratic-parties-garland

First of all, I could care less about Trump, he is a clown.

Secondly, to think he is just arousing the fears of the populace is incorrect. Statistics show that crimes in major cities around the country being committed by illegals have been on the increase. It is also equally factual that the majority of world wide terrorism is fed through fundamentalist Islam.

So should American hate all foreigners and Muslims? No. Does this lead to hate? It can and does. Does Trump care either way? No, he just wants to get elected and is feeding into citizens who are being ignored who want to secure the border.

The issue is legalized immigration and an insecure border. The legal process to becoming a legal citizen needs to be revamped and the border needs to be secured to prevent gangs and drug dealers and terrorists from crossing it.

End of story.

Originally posted by Suzianne
ALL Republicans sell fear. It's what they do.

The left not so much. There is a difference between "selling fear" and trying to wake people up to real dangers.

What motivates people to vote is self interest whether it is an Obamaphone or to stop global warming so we don't destroy ourselves or to secure the border to help prevent terrorism. Whoever does it the best wins.

The great part is, they don't even have to follow through with their promises.

So there you have it. To win elections you MUST sell fear or give away free stuff.

Originally posted by whodey
What motivates people to vote is self interest whether it is an Obamaphone or to stop global warming so we don't destroy ourselves or to secure the border to help prevent terrorism. Whoever does it the best wins.

The great part is, they don't even have to follow through with their promises.

So there you have it. To win elections you MUST sell fear or give away free stuff.

Obama will be reviewed as one of the best presidents at least in living memory. His goal of bringing affordable heathcare to the masses. Has been, at the same time, visionary and yet a fundamental.

Originally posted by divegeester
Obama will be reviewed as one of the best presidents at least in living memory. His goal of bringing affordable heathcare to the masses. Has been, at the same time, visionary and yet a fundamental.

Yea, it's so great that both parties are demanding it be overturned and the ink is not even dry on the legislation.

Originally posted by whodey
Yea, it's so great that both parties are demanding it be overturned and the ink is not even dry on the legislation.

No they are not. There are objectors on both sides and supporters on both sides. You are just being dishonest.

Originally posted by divegeester
No they are not. There are objectors on both sides and supporters on both sides. You are just being dishonest.

Yes they are. You are the one being dishonest. Both Bernie and Hillary want to push for a single payer system instead and the GOP says they want to overturn the legislation as well.

Originally posted by whodey
First of all, I could care less about Trump, he is a clown.

Secondly, to think he is just arousing the fears of the populace is incorrect. Statistics show that crimes in major cities around the country being committed by illegals have been on the increase. It is also equally factual that the majority of world wide terrorism is fed through fundamentalist ...[text shortened]... o be secured to prevent gangs and drug dealers and terrorists from crossing it.

End of story.

First of all, I could care less about Trump, he is a clown.

Probably the only true thing you have ever said.

Secondly, to think he is just arousing the fears of the populace is incorrect.

Also, not what I was saying... How's that reading comprehension going over there?

Statistics show that crimes in major cities around the country being committed by illegals have been on the increase.

Bull-excrement. Give us a laugh, show us these statistics from a reputable source.

It is also equally factual that the majority of world wide terrorism is fed through fundamentalist Islam.

Also bull-excretia. More so when you are looking at USA terrorism which is mostly committed
by white Christian men.

End of story.

Not by a long shot.